The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by PowerdGNFlag » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:09 am

J-Lead wrote: ...maintaining the idea the RX-78-2's/02's combat debut is the first Mobile Suit battle in recorded history. :)
But wasn't the Gundam Rising battle only significant as the first battle between two MS inside a colony?
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by J-Lead » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:11 am

PowerdGNFlag wrote:But wasn't the Gundam Rising battle only significant as the first battle between two MS inside a colony?
Nope, most sources imply that it's the first mobile suit battle ever. That was always it's point of significance.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:37 pm

J-Lead wrote:
PowerdGNFlag wrote:But wasn't the Gundam Rising battle only significant as the first battle between two MS inside a colony?
Nope, most sources imply that it's the first mobile suit battle ever. That was always it's point of significance.
Can you point out what these sources are? I don't recall seeing that stated in a bulk of the material I have, but I could be missing it.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:58 pm

Wait, are we talking about specifically within the context of The Origin itself? Because in The Origin, the Guncannon predates the Gundam, and IIRC Guncannons were engaged in combat(and soundly defeated) by Zakus when Professor Minovsky attempted to defect, which would be a MS vs MS battle.
And that was before the Gundam was developed/built(again, IIRC).
Then, if you count that, there's the Guntank vs Guntank engagement even earlier, when the stolen Guntank carrying Casval and Artesia tangled with(and was destroyed by) other Guntanks.

Now, within the context of the original series, the Federation didn't have Mobile Suits prior to the Side 7 raid and the Gundam's first battle, IIRC, so in that case it being the first-ever MS vs MS battle makes sense.
But to m
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by toysdream » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:11 pm

Deacon: The timeline in Entertainment Bible 1 says コロニー内部で史上初のMS同士の戦闘が行なわれる ("the first battle between MS in history takes place inside the colony"), and in Gundam Officials this is condensed down to 史上初とされるMS同士の実戦 ("the first battle between MS in history"), confirming that "inside the colony" is just extra description rather than a key part of the phrase.

But frankly, I think the status of most of the previous published text is up in the air at this point. None of it was ever technically official, and it's beyond me to referee a continuity deathmatch between unofficial but widely accepted publications and an "official" but possibly alternate-historical anime. :-\

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:12 pm

Zomg gaiz G-Saviour confirmed for canon! Ancestral link! Ramba Ral's Unit is now called the MS-04 Bugu!

All joking aside, it's an interesting notion that they're giving the suit a name... despite it not being mass produced and all.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by toysdream » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:28 pm

I noted that they'd already used the name for G-Saviour, but the studio seemed to be okay with recycling it.

Since it's labeled as the MS-04, not "YMS" as with the Waff, perhaps it's produced in slightly greater numbers. I still think it sits awkwardly in between the Waff and the Zaku, with its boxy legs and all those power cables, but on the other hand I'm gradually warming to the Gundam Local Type.

Speaking of which, I note that the Gundam Local Type kit manual describes it as being more slender than Zeon's Zaku or the "RCX-76". I wonder if the latter is the model number for the early version of the Guncannon we'll be seeing in the next Origin episode?

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:50 pm

toysdream wrote:I noted that they'd already used the name for G-Saviour, but the studio seemed to be okay with recycling it.

Since it's labeled as the MS-04, not "YMS" as with the Waff, perhaps it's produced in slightly greater numbers. I still think it sits awkwardly in between the Waff and the Zaku, with its boxy legs and all those power cables, but on the other hand I'm gradually warming to the Gundam Local Type.

Speaking of which, I note that the Gundam Local Type kit manual describes it as being more slender than Zeon's Zaku or the "RCX-76". I wonder if the latter is the model number for the early version of the Guncannon we'll be seeing in the next Origin episode?

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Considering Ramba is a bit on the hefty side, perhaps he won't have any qualms with the suit being that way. That or maybe we'll get another rendition of it to explain the shift to the MS-05 (aside from the article mentioning "high costs" for mass production -- then again, hello that size?)

The Gundam Local Type bothers me... I feel like there are going to be too many of them and thus the luster of the Gundam's uniqueness will be lost. I mean heck, we already have that black one roaming around in southern North America that pretty much made Cucuruz go "nope, done fighting. Not gonna fight that. Quitting the army. Bye. BTW, don't die!"

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Derringer » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:25 am

Speaking of the Local Type, there's some other development tree or recent image of the Local Type in the same colors and carrying the same equipment as the RX-78-01 Prototype Gundam. Did anyone see that?

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Deathzealot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:00 am

I thought the Local Type was the Prototype Gundam?

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by toysdream » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:38 am

Nope. See the updated development chart:

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/images/flow2.jpg

According to the new kit manual, the RX-78[N] Gundam Local Type was created using spare parts from the RX-78-01 - the prototype Gundam unit 1 - to test the Gundam in Earth environments. The revised RX-78-01[N] is a minor update, and it's equipped with a hydrojet backpack for water testing. The data from this machine was eventually rolled back into the RX-78-02 Gundam.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Xohar » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:57 am

toysdream wrote:Nope. See the updated development chart:

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/images/flow2.jpg
According to that new Chart the Ground GM is based on both the Ground Gundam AND the Standard GM. Whasnt this the other way around? or has this been already stated in the past? Because According to everything we know it doesnt make any sense.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by BrentD15 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:21 pm

Xohar wrote:
toysdream wrote:Nope. See the updated development chart:

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/images/flow2.jpg
According to that new Chart the Ground GM is based on both the Ground Gundam AND the Standard GM. Whasnt this the other way around? or has this been already stated in the past? Because According to everything we know it doesnt make any sense.
In any case, we should just consider this as Origin's continuity.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by J-Lead » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:37 pm

BrentD15 wrote:In any case, we should just consider this as Origin's continuity.
We have no idea what we should consider it. The Director outright said that Origin isn't meant to be a simple remake, but in the same vein, the mechanical designer said that the director made it clear that the Guntank in the OVA needed to be reworked into an earlier ancestor, so they are taking into account it's place in Universal Century as a whole, at least to some degree.

That, and so far, there hasn't been anything terribly offensive continuity-wise, and even the Early-type Guncannons can be worked in with if you really consider the timeline and the background behind the RX project (though the prospect of it having the model number "RCX-76" may even further remove it from the Federation line of MS we're familiar with.) But considering even the proper mainstream UC rarely tries to cement anything aside from basic details and Gunpla Manuals/lore textbooks (both of which often contradict previous respective iterations,) saying that Origin must be segregated from proper UC is kind of a pointless effort, because there's a fat chance Sunrise is going to even bother clarifying what is what.

At best, Origin might serve as a sort of "Endless Waltz" to the OYW; an OVA where some liberties are taken design-wise and where they refrain from remaining conservative when it comes to portraying the days before the OYW, but one that's meant to simultaneously complement to mainstream UC lore as well as do it's own thing when and if they feel it's appropriate for the sake of remaining faithful to Yas's vision. It's unlikely that Sunrise is going to make any effort to separate it into it's own timeline, anyway, and MSD is making a considerable effort to tie it into various OVAs and MSV-stories already present in mainstream UC, so until Sunrise comes out and releases some sort of actual statement on the issue, might as well just go with the flow.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:33 am

A bit sideway: Do you think that the reason which the Republic of Munzo, and latter the Principality of Zeon adopted many elements of the German army in WWI/WWII (for example, the uniform, the MS designs like the Zaku FZ, and the decorations like the Zeon Cross) is because Spacenoid, who are people from all over the Earth forced to migrate to space, needs to craft their own cultural identity alongside their independent legitimacy? It is kind of like the situation with Black people who first leave the plantations to migrate into the unknown metropolises.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by J-Lead » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:58 pm

False Prophet wrote:A bit sideway: Do you think that the reason which the Republic of Munzo, and latter the Principality of Zeon adopted many elements of the German army in WWI/WWII (for example, the uniform, the MS designs like the Zaku FZ, and the decorations like the Zeon Cross) is because Spacenoid, who are people from all over the Earth forced to migrate to space, needs to craft their own cultural identity alongside their independent legitimacy? It is kind of like the situation with Black people who first leave the plantations to migrate into the unknown metropolises.
Well, if so, they certainly picked some awkward iconography to go with their Nation State.

I'd say it was intentional, but this was even before Gihren was in charge...

On a site note, in the Cucuruz Doan Side Story manga, a Zaku is seen using a Dom-style heat saber sometime in October, which can mean one of two things; the Dom's heat saber was originally a weapon built by Zeonic that was meant to be issued to the Zaku and merely issued to the Dom after it's development by the military, or Doan's unit is notable enough to be able to requisition unique, specialized equipment from Zimmad and use it on their Zakus.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Erisie » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:37 am

J-Lead wrote:On a site note, in the Cucuruz Doan Side Story manga, a Zaku is seen using a Dom-style heat saber sometime in October, which can mean one of two things; the Dom's heat saber was originally a weapon built by Zeonic that was meant to be issued to the Zaku and merely issued to the Dom after its development by the military, or Doan's unit is notable enough to be able to requisition unique, specialized equipment from Zimmad and use it on their Zakus.
There is a different explanation: according to the MSD materials, Zimmad took up production of the Zaku (and Gouf) under license by Zeonic. From this, we can speculate that Doan's unit was a Zimmad-built Zaku, equipped with an experimental close-combat weapon that would later be used for Zimmad's own units.

Speaking of MSD, the latest update includes the Guncannon's development timeline. The last one is "RC-77 Guncannon Early Type". Would that the model used by Hayato and Kai in the manga? It's interesting that they changed the designation from the familiar "RX" to "RC": "C" for "Cannon" and no longer an experimental unit (ie. part of the V Project).

I'm just speculating here, but the "Early Type" moniker is probably in reference to the "Late" upgrades that the units received while in Jaburo, such as the 5-fingered manipulators and switchable ordnance.
Ditto for the RX-78: "Early" is the Gundam as it left Side 7 (eg. first beam rifle), "Mid" is the Jaburo upgrades (Core Pod, improved reactor output for the new beam rifle), "Late" is magnetic coating.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Shinji_Shinigami » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:34 am

On the note of The Origin episode 4 and the "first mobile suit battle" I have some questions. So, people are devastated by the development of the Zaku, which i can kind of understand. Would it be like the original, were the EF has no equivalent, then it would truly be terrifying. However in this scenario, the EF has some Mobile Suits. Yes the Guncannon is not as versatile as a Zaku or a Gundam, but i do not see how those Guncannons are sooooo inferior to the Zakus. So what made them lose? Is it internal design? inferiority of the pilots? I mean they are, in my opinion well armed. A cannon for long range battle and a Gantling gun for mid to close range battle. Sure lacking on the short range department, but that could be compensated with battle tactics.

Next question would be, what project V is? I mean they already have the Guntanks and Guncannons. Sure it will be the Gundam but, thats "all"? Don't missunderstand me, the Gundam, given what it is, still has impact, but i believe it is not the same as it had in the original conception, were the whole mobile suit concept had to be secured to earth, and the Federation had to first build them. Now it seems that only the advanced technology behind the gundam will be the V part. Mobile suits for the EF should already exist, same goes for the Production lines and some processing. Maybe even Pilot Training and they already have some Ace pilots.....in my opinion, this softens the dilemma of the EF quiet a bit. But those are just my thoughts.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by nickh46 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:26 pm

Shinji_Shinigami wrote:On the note of The Origin episode 4 and the "first mobile suit battle" I have some questions. So, people are devastated by the development of the Zaku, which i can kind of understand. Would it be like the original, were the EF has no equivalent, then it would truly be terrifying. However in this scenario, the EF has some Mobile Suits. Yes the Guncannon is not as versatile as a Zaku or a Gundam, but i do not see how those Guncannons are sooooo inferior to the Zakus. So what made them lose? Is it internal design? inferiority of the pilots? I mean they are, in my opinion well armed. A cannon for long range battle and a Gantling gun for mid to close range battle. Sure lacking on the short range department, but that could be compensated with battle tactics.

Next question would be, what project V is? I mean they already have the Guntanks and Guncannons. Sure it will be the Gundam but, thats "all"? Don't missunderstand me, the Gundam, given what it is, still has impact, but i believe it is not the same as it had in the original conception, were the whole mobile suit concept had to be secured to earth, and the Federation had to first build them. Now it seems that only the advanced technology behind the gundam will be the V part. Mobile suits for the EF should already exist, same goes for the Production lines and some processing. Maybe even Pilot Training and they already have some Ace pilots.....in my opinion, this softens the dilemma of the EF quiet a bit. But those are just my thoughts.

If I remember correctly, in the manga, Tem Ray mentioned that the first tanks (from WW1) were designed for infantry and general support, and then how tanks evolved into Main Battle Tanks, designed to slug it out tank vs tanks. He compared the Guncannon to infantry/artillery support, and the Zakus as mobile suit vs. mobile suit brawls, as a main underlying flaw on why the Zakus won.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by domtropen » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:16 pm

Maybe if EF deploys Guncannons further away perhaps so they can fire their main cannons out of Zaku's range? Guncannons seemed to be deployed too close to the attack range of zakus' machine guns [and also close enough for zakus to rush in closing the gap]. At mid to close range Zakus are much faster at dodging and charging than Guncannons, and these Guncannons didn't have super durable armor like Gundam.

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