MS Catalog

[AmuroNT1]

The game depictions I've seen of Xi's mega beam cannons sometimes look like they come out of those triangular armor pieces that hang in front of the shoulders (specifically, the armor lifts up as in flight mode and the beam fires from the forward "tip"). Of course with those bright beam effects it can be hard to see what exactly is going on, but I think the beam sabers are the most likely answer.

Penelope's Maxi Boost moveset doesn't show it using its shoulder armor in any combat capacity; instead it gets a lot of use out of those beam cannons on the forearm shields, especially in Odysseus Gundam mode.

[toysdream]

Is there any game prior to Extreme Versus Full Boost in which the Xi's mega beam cannons were usable weapons? In Full Boost, they pretty clearly come from the beam saber hilts; aside from the Maxi Boost opening animation, you can see this in the nice-quality pics in this Gundam.info article:

http://www.gundam.info/topic/9330

In particular, this image:

http://www.gundam.info/uploads/image/20 ... -46612.jpg

If this is the only game depiction, I feel like it should be considered definitive.

EDIT: Oh, that's right: In this thread Balofo cited Battle Universe. I'll go look into that too.

-- Mark

[Deacon Blues]

the back weapon is thus identified in the episode 11 script.

Wait... you have V Gundam scripts? Does this mean subs soon? :O

*kicks rock* I want copies of Gundam scripts, darn it. So many interesting notes! *pets precious Psycho Pass scripts*

[balofo]

-Messer's novel profile mentions the beam saber and other armaments are held in the shield. G Gen F shows it drawing the saber from the shield. GPF mentions the Beam Rifle is directly connected to the generator and the shield doubles as a weapon rack(though no visible weapons inside it)...
-Gustav Carl's grenade launcher is single in G Gen F plus it shows the same port opening gimmick that made to the UC ver. G Gen F depicts the grenade as the same Z and Rezel model, yay for standardization. Modern G Gen just show the port open and 2 grenades fired in succession but not 2 grenades stored one above the other like the UC ver.
-Penelope's vulcan: in G Gen F it fires from only 2 barrels on the dragon head. Novel version had 4 barrels. Not depicted in more modern G Gen games. Though there is another set of similar barrels on the bottom of the dragon head
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2013 ... NEROPE.jpg
-Penelope's funnel missiles: both G Gen F and modern ones depict the funnels from the shields. There's even a CG movie with the shield blue parts opening(this also appears in EXVSMB, but no missiles) and firing the missiles.
-Conclusion: if G Gen F had more than 4 attacks per unit we would know way more about the HF MS

I've studied a lot of the HF mecha but I'd wait for the RD Penelope for the definite armament list

Ok, did an extensive study of EXVSMB footage and I learned even more:
-No, the Xi doesn't fire any beams from the shoulder beam sabers in the CG OP. It only fires the beam rifle, funny since the jp wiki makes the same claim. It's actually the Penelope
http://i.imgur.com/bdHTl8o.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WHVhKqs.jpg

-The Penelope consistently opens the shoulder ports and raise the front skirt when it deploys its funnel missiles(you can even see the funnel missile leaving the shoulder launcher), though there may be another launch point.
http://i.imgur.com/uOnn6Wb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/v6eu5ZM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/e5JmBHb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iiIkH17.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dmFLALp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IyznKHY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rqRwt0Y.jpg
-Here are screens with the Penelope sporting 4 beam sabers at the same time. The melee combo is quick but it reaches for the shoulder MPCs(who then disappear from the shoulder) and when it finishes the shoulder MPCs are back on place
http://i.imgur.com/cSkwD5F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/C6rVy0Y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VTE749C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZncTb0l.jpg

-NEW: the arm shields port opening gimmick are actually even more missile launchers, Homing Missiles going by the old profiles. Each arm shield has 8 normal missile launchers, each blue part hold 2 missiles. These missiles are fired during its Burst attack(you can clearly see the ports opening and closing) and when it fires its Beam Rifle.
http://i.imgur.com/bJXBI8y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XAdlrUV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9BPg3HB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Me68tDA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5kV2UEA.jpg

-Penelope's shoulder MPC can be used as combo finisher and it fires a normal non charge shot. You can clearly see the MPCs pointing forward to fire.
http://i.imgur.com/B4DGjLR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guOIfbU.jpg

-Oh and the arm shields can produce huge beam sabers, like the Raiser Sword. I doubt they'd make up since the Penelope is already loaded as it is, so it should be a legit capability. The movelist calls it a Mega Particle Cannon...
http://i.imgur.com/x1CWCSR.jpg


The Xi also consistently raises its rear skirt to fire the funnel missiles and its Mega Beam Cannons are located on the chest armor(bottom tip) and need to deploy forward to fire(same form as the high speed cruiser form), the same location was given if the explanation of the RD in magazines. It's worth mentioniong the Xi could deploy its Beam Sabers from the shoulder rack in the novel(for cutting SFS above it, for example), but this never appeared anywhere else.

My final take on the HF armaments:
-Xi: vulcan gun x 2, mega beam cannon x 2, arm missile launcher x 2, leg missile launcher x 2, beam saber x 2, beam rifle, shield, 10x funnel missiles(lineart clearly shows there no spare missiles), beam barrier.
unconfirmed: 62x micromissile pod, shield missiles, sand barrier
-Messer: vulcan gun x 6, beam rifle, shield(grenade launcher, beam saber, etc)
-Odysseus: beam rifle, 2x shield (mega particle cannon, beam saber, 8x Homing Missile)
-Penelope: Odysseus standard, 2x Vulcan, 16x front skirt funnel missile, 24x shoulder funnel missile, 2x shoulder mega particle cannon(beam saber), beam barrier(incomplete). unconfirmed: sand barrier
-Gustav: vulcan gun, single grenade launcher(look how the UC has a larger magazine, IMO they did this to make it a twin launcher), beam saber x 2, beam rifle, flexible shield

[toysdream]

That's Build Fighters episode 11.

-- Mark

[Xenosynth]

Xi Beam Cannons being prepped for fire, and firing.

This is technically from Assault Survive, but Battle Universe uses the same animations.

Edit Edit: Nevermind, he only had the Ex-Vs stuff. My net's going a bit weird.

[balofo]

Oh, during gameplay the Xi's Beam Sabers deploy forward to fire the MBC, it's also depicted in game's OP.

http://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fo ... 155410.jpg

Sorry!

Also Sand Barrier should be the infamous Sand Barrels from the novels: Xi is approaching a city but some missiles are fired at it, then it proceeds to activate the Sand Barrels all over its body to destroy the incoming missiles. They even explain it has to activated just in time or the defense won't work. It also says there's an even more powerful ability: the beam barrier(which is not for defense but for achieving high speeds and avoid anti-air defenses when the Xi attacks Adelaide the 1st time). The Sand Barrel is also used as an attacking weapon in the last Xi/Penelope duel managing to destroy a beam rifle.

[toysdream]

Epic! Let's see where things stand now...

Messer: I'm fully convinced the beam saber is stored in the shield, but at this point I'm questioning the existence of the grenade launcher. We don't know where it's stored, we've never seen it, it's not usable in any of the games... I'm moving this to "unconfirmed."

Gustav Karl: In the later G Generation games, the grenade launcher looks wide enough to store two shells side by side (like the Zeta Gundam), and it certainly fires them both in rapid succession. Since the MS Encyclopedia says it has two grenade launchers, and the Unicorn version clearly does, I'd say this has been the consensus for everything after G Generation F.

Likewise, even though Fujita's redesign only shows one vulcan, the MS Encyclopedia claims it has two, and it's always been animated with two in the G Generation games. Here again, the Unicorn version just brings the design in line with the MS Encyclopedia specs and the G Generation games.

Penelope: The novel said it had four vulcans in the head, and that Newtype illustration even shows where they are, but these don't seem to be retained in the revamped design. I think the MS Encyclopedia and G Generation F may be correct that it only has two vulcans now.

I'm now convinced that the Penelope has shoulder mega particle cannons, although I'd like some more solid evidence that they also work as beam sabers. (They don't seem to be designed to be removable.) The missile launchers in the shields seem pretty well documented, but since we're getting a new toy shortly, I'm prepared to wait and see. For now, I'll put the missile launchers and sand barrels under "unconfirmed."

Xi Gundam: As we've seen, the games don't agree on the location of the mega beam cannons. I'll just leave these as standalone weapons for now, rather than assuming they double as beam sabers. I've added the sand barrels as "unconfirmed." And I'm still not convinced that the ten funnel missiles in the rear skirts are the entire complement - those shoulder vents really do look a lot like those of the Penelope.

So I think that covers it for the Hathaway novels, at least for the time being. When in doubt, my inclination is to defer to the MS Encylopedia, and we'll wait and see if future games and publications provide any clarity.

What next? Do we still want Wing and Turn A, or should I go back and do some earlier UC stuff while we're in that part of the timeline?

-- Mark

[Xenosynth]

The sand barrel thing has always confused me. This, as far as I can see the only depiction of them in a game. Being readied on the shoulders (Normally they stick up and look almost saber-ish.) And then being fired.

I do know you wanted to move on, I just was curious about if they had been shown in any other thing before in this way? I guess we'll know more when the figure is out though!

[balofo]

Sand Barrels only appear in Gaia Gear and the HF novel(like I described above). I know about the Penelope's shoulder thing being used as SBs in the Battle Universe game, but with EXVS they make more sense as MPC. The RD will give the final answer.

Mark, let's do Turn A

[AmuroNT1]

You can go ahead and do Turn A if you want, Wing doesn't have a lot of amazing mecha mysteries behind it anyhow. On the other hand, the Turn A Gundam Art Works book is going to be a massive help in this regard.

EDIT: Actually, while the subject of Build Fighters is still fresh, I did have a question for Mark. The manuals for both the Kämpfer Amazing and the stand-alone Amazing Weapon Binder show it wielding two conjoined binders as some kind of weapon. Is there any documentation explaining this?

[balofo]

Confirmation of the Penelope's shoulder things being MPCs

http://i.imgur.com/gMOHx2C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tj4lA3s.jpg

[AmuroNT1]

Just wanted to make a quick remark on something.

A while ago, I mentioned that the unit profiles in Gundam Extreme Vs. give the Apsaras II a model number of MAX-10. I asked Mark about it, and he said he'd never seen that number come up anywhere before. Well, during one of my livestreams of Gundam Breaker, we fought the Apsaras II, and it had "MAX-10" in the name listed above its health bar. I dunno if this is a recent addition, say if Sunrise decided to go back and give it a model number, but that's two sources giving the same info.

[balofo]

Just wanted to make a quick remark on something.

A while ago, I mentioned that the unit profiles in Gundam Extreme Vs. give the Apsaras II a model number of MAX-10. I asked Mark about it, and he said he'd never seen that number come up anywhere before. Well, during one of my livestreams of Gundam Breaker, we fought the Apsaras II, and it had "MAX-10" in the name listed above its health bar. I dunno if this is a recent addition, say if Sunrise decided to go back and give it a model number, but that's two sources giving the same info.

That's the same case of the Divinidad and some MAs from Crossbone. Good for mahq but not for this list, unless it gets published in a reliable book

[balofo]

Got my hands on the Data Collection for UC:
-Lineart wise new stuff is: missile design for Gallus K hand missile launcher, Stein's Beam Saber(same as Jegan), Byalant Custom 2 with Gaplant Booster equipped and Unicorn's 3 shield formation
-Conroy's Jegan has a sensor radius 24,800m and full weight is 49.7t
-Sleeved Jadg Doga: Beam Saber&Heat Knife combo listed, as it was in the Gundam Ace Katoki column.
-Sleeved Zaku III full weight is 70.9t. Sub arm is called here sub manipulator
-Sleeved Regelgu has Beam Lancer listed but no Beam Naginata. That's the name of its beam saber in the old manual
-Sleeved Gelgoog has both Beam Naginata and Beam Saber listed
-It's time to list Sleeved Gigan just mentioning the Gatling Gun and the Propellant Boosters since the rest of the armaments remains the same and we don't have the weight/height data yet, generator is listed here as the same as base unit
-Sleeved Bawoo has it's chest vulcans as 60mm, also lists the side skirt machine cannons(same as Rebawoo) as did the the Gundam Ace Katoki column
-Angelo's Geara Doga has Beam Machinegun listed
-Phenex's full weight is 52.4t, Sensor is 23,700m~unknown, Thrusters is 206,770kg~unknown and generator is 3890kw~unknown

I guess that covers the relevant stuff

Mark you have listed Sensor as 16,300m for Rezel C GR version but it should be 14,920m as all versions of the unit.

[toysdream]

Excellent! Thanks for the missing data, and the ReZEL correction. I've made pretty much all these changes, although I'm iffy on the Gelgoog beam sabers.

The Phenex specs are especially interesting, since this helps flesh out our sense of how much all the Unicorn equipment options weigh. In this thread, I compared the specs for the various Unicorns and suggested that the original Unicorn specs (base weight 23.7t, full weight 42.7t) didn't include the beam magnum and shield (after all, it first sortied with neither). Thus the extra 3.7t of carried equipment on the Banshee (base weight 24.0t, full weight 46.7t) represents the "armed armor" units on its arms.

As for the Banshee Norn (base weight 27.3t, full weight 48.8t), its base weight is 3.3 tons heavier than the original Banshee, which I'd attribute mostly to the armed armor XC, shield, and armed armor DE. It has 1.2t less carried equipment than the original Banshee - in other words, 2.5t of equipment - which would correspond to the beam magnum and revolving launcher.

Finally, we have the Phenex. Its base weight is only 0.1t heavier than that of the original Unicorn, but it has 9.6t more carried equipment. This includes a beam magnum, two shields, two armed armor DE units, and some kind of bracket that the shields are attached to. Based on the Banshee Norn, we know that the shield + armed armor DE is less than 3.3 tons, and the beam magnum with revolving launcher is 2.5 tons, so we'd expect the Phenex's extra gear to come to less than 9.1 tons. But still, that's pretty close!

Also, based on the thrust specs, it appears that each armed armor DE provides about 32,000 kg of thrust...

-- Mark

[Gelgoog Jager]

Thanks for the info balofo!

Isn't the Gallus K's arm mounted missile launcher simply a weapon taken from the OYW MS-06D? Given that it already borrows the MS-06K's rocket launcher and the AMX-008's hyper knuckle buster, I believed such was the case. Actually I'm wondering if the Gallus K itself might not simply be ground version of the Gallus J, which essentially has different shoulder armor (along with thrusters) and backpack, while all weapons are simply optional and can be equipped on either the J or K types.

As for the ReGelg's weapon, maybe it simply works like the Gazu L/R's beam sabers, which the lineart show capable of combining into a naginata, though I can't recall if this is ever shown in ZZ. I do recall that one half of the Dreissen's melee weapon is called beam lancer as well.

[balofo]

Thanks for the info balofo!

Isn't the Gallus K's arm mounted missile launcher simply a weapon taken from the OYW MS-06D? Given that it already borrows the MS-06K's rocket launcher and the AMX-008's hyper knuckle buster, I believed such was the case. Actually I'm wondering if the Gallus K itself might not simply be ground version of the Gallus J, which essentially has different shoulder armor (along with thrusters) and backpack, while all weapons are simply optional and can be equipped on either the J or K types.

As for the ReGelg's weapon, maybe it simply works like the Gazu L/R's beam sabers, which the lineart show capable of combining into a naginata, though I can't recall if this is ever shown in ZZ. I do recall that one half of the Dreissen's melee weapon is called beam lancer as well.

Yeah the Gallus K is all borrowed weapons, I believe only the shoulder beam cannon is its original weapon. In the novel it also uses a Rick Dom II Giant Baz. Sadly I don't think we're getting a kit for it, so no further info.

Actually the Regelgu's Beam Saber is very similar to the Gazu L/R's one. I believe either the old kit manual mentioned or the kit itself could combine the sabers into a naginata.

**Mark, I've seen scans for the Destiny Impulse R(no mention of the shield) and Turn Red(adds Anti Beam Shield, 2x beam sabers, 2x CIWS) profiles from the latest book.

We also need to add the upgraded druggie trio Gundams, but I haven't seen the profile scans yet. We could do a partial weapon list and we know the model numbers, but no weight/height.

****Mark, you also put Beam Gatling Gun for the Sleeved Gigan, that must be a typo from the Gundam Ace column since it's the same Dra-C weapon plus it's shown firing solid ammo and the Gigan can't handle a beam weapon

*****Small addition: the B Sword for the Mirage Frame also doubles as beam cannon(mounted on tip)

[Gelgoog Jager]

Yeah the Gallus K is all borrowed weapons, I believe only the shoulder beam cannon is its original weapon. In the novel it also uses a Rick Dom II Giant Baz. Sadly I don't think we're getting a kit for it, so no further info.

Actually even the official profile states that the cannon is actually the same weapon used by the AMX-008 Ga-Zowmn, so it doesn't have any original weapon at all:

http://www.gundam-unicorn.net/en/ms/04.html#06

Though being fair, even the Gallus J that briefly appears on ep 4 is borrowing a Hizack's beam rifle instead of using its energy gun (which IIRC some lineart actually described as a beam magnum). Along with Capules, these units are the most advanced MS deployed by the Zeon remnants, excluding the Zee Zulus which were provided by the Sleeves.

Actually the Regelgu's Beam Saber is very similar to the Gazu L/R's one. I believe either the old kit manual mentioned or the kit itself could combine the sabers into a naginata.

Perhaps not the best source, but the Zeonography kit of the Galbaldy Alpha also has a naginata that can be split into two beams sabers.

****Mark, you also put Beam Gatling Gun for the Sleeved Gigan, that must be a typo from the Gundam Ace column since it's the same Dra-C weapon plus it's shown firing solid ammo and the Gigan can't handle a beam weapon

The same weapon is also included on the HGUC Dra-C as a handheld weapon (the manual shows both a MS-06F2 and Dra-C with both hands holding it).

[toysdream]

So meanwhile, I've filled in specs for all the Universal Century stuff between First Gundam and Char's Counterattack - including MS Igloo, 08th MS Team, 0080, 0083, Advance of Zeta, Zeta, Z-MSV, ZZ, Gundam Sentinel, and Double Fake. Whew!

Some changes to the specs format, too, because it gets pretty unwieldy with the detailed specs from older shows.

-- Mark