It's a metaphor for Doktor S past transvestieAmuroNT1 wrote:...Why does the Prometheus have Trowa's clown mask seven years before he ever laid eyes on the ORIGINAL Heavyarms?
Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
In the end Zechs just upgraded Proto Zero to angel wing Wing Zero in Peacemillion while Heero received Epyon from Treize. Welp, Proto Zero was pointless and Wing was abandoned as usual. Tallgeese was casually mothballed as well
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Shota Heero, Duo and Quatre
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Shota Heero, Duo and Quatre
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Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
To me, the point of Proto Zero was to let them work Okawara's Wing Zero design into a story that was almost exclusively using Katoki's designs. So in that regard, mission accomplished.balofo wrote:In the end Zechs just upgraded Proto Zero to angel wing Wing Zero in Peacemillion while Heero received Epyon from Treize. Welp, Proto Zero was pointless and Wing was abandoned as usual. Tallgeese was casually mothballed as well
Plus, this manga doesn't seem to be diverging too far from the original anime's plotline, just adding some overall embellishment. So Heero ditching Wing and Zechs abandoning Tallgeese shouldn't be a big surprise or disappointment.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Hey, what did dryer lint ever do to you to deserve that?AmuroNT1 wrote:Because as the last five years of this shambling mound of manure has readily proven, Katsuyuki Sumizawa has lost his damn mind and now possesses all the creativity of dryer lint.
Also, at this rate I really would not be surprised if the Seven Dwarves power output was officially stated to be 'over 9000'.
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Haters gonna hate, is all I'm gonna say.
I'm in it for the MS not the plot... if Heero laughs randomly, bonus points.
Also, regarding the loss of Tallgeese, wasn't there a song called "The Abandoned Horse of the Age"?
I'm in it for the MS not the plot... if Heero laughs randomly, bonus points.
Also, regarding the loss of Tallgeese, wasn't there a song called "The Abandoned Horse of the Age"?
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
You seem to have misunderstood me. I love Gundam Wing; it's what got me into the franchise, introduced me to a ton of great friends, and is the reason I met my first girlfriend. That's exactly why I so utterly despise Frozen Teardrop: because it takes everything enjoyable about the original Gundam Wing and craps all over it with lazy, slipshod writing and nonsensical plot elements. And this is all the worse because the person writing it is the show's head writer, which has made me legitimately question if something happened to him in the intervening decade or if he always had these crazy ideas and was being reined in by better writers.
Even if you're only in it for the MS, it's not like there's very much there either. The only thing we've actually seen in full is Prometheus, and it's only okay (because there's not much you can do to mess up a straightforward design like Heavyarms). Then you get garbage like Deathscythe's spinoff Warlock having a werewolf mode because...because, and Wing Zero's spinoff Snow White having a crossbow that fires elemental attacks like something out of Final Fantasy.
To answer your music question, that is indeed a track in Wing's OST (Disc 3, Track 15), but "The Abandoned Horse of the Age" is actually a really poor translation. In the original Japanese it's 時代の捨て駒; the first part is "jidai", usually translated as "era" or similar words. The second is "sutegoma", a term from Shogi (AKA Japanese chess) referring to a piece that you sacrifice, especially a pawn. So "The Sacrificial Pawn of the Era" is a better translation for that track.
Even if you're only in it for the MS, it's not like there's very much there either. The only thing we've actually seen in full is Prometheus, and it's only okay (because there's not much you can do to mess up a straightforward design like Heavyarms). Then you get garbage like Deathscythe's spinoff Warlock having a werewolf mode because...because, and Wing Zero's spinoff Snow White having a crossbow that fires elemental attacks like something out of Final Fantasy.
To answer your music question, that is indeed a track in Wing's OST (Disc 3, Track 15), but "The Abandoned Horse of the Age" is actually a really poor translation. In the original Japanese it's 時代の捨て駒; the first part is "jidai", usually translated as "era" or similar words. The second is "sutegoma", a term from Shogi (AKA Japanese chess) referring to a piece that you sacrifice, especially a pawn. So "The Sacrificial Pawn of the Era" is a better translation for that track.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Honestly speaking, Gundam Wing's writing was always passable but flawed. That's not to say it was god awful, or that you should dislike Gundam Wing, or that it was unforgivable, but objectively speaking....I can how all the bad writing tendencies in Wing could lead to something like Frozen Teardrop. The CLAMP like spectacles and plot devices showed up a handful of times in the series. It's just that now in FT that's all there is.AmuroNT1 wrote:You seem to have misunderstood me. I love Gundam Wing; it's what got me into the franchise, introduced me to a ton of great friends, and is the reason I met my first girlfriend. That's exactly why I so utterly despise Frozen Teardrop: because it takes everything enjoyable about the original Gundam Wing and craps all over it with lazy, slipshod writing and nonsensical plot elements. And this is all the worse because the person writing it is the show's head writer, which has made me legitimately question if something happened to him in the intervening decade or if he always had these crazy ideas and was being reined in by better writers.
Even if you're only in it for the MS, it's not like there's very much there either. The only thing we've actually seen in full is Prometheus, and it's only okay (because there's not much you can do to mess up a straightforward design like Heavyarms). Then you get garbage like Deathscythe's spinoff Warlock having a werewolf mode because...because, and Wing Zero's spinoff Snow White having a crossbow that fires elemental attacks like something out of Final Fantasy.
To answer your music question, that is indeed a track in Wing's OST (Disc 3, Track 15), but "The Abandoned Horse of the Age" is actually a really poor translation. In the original Japanese it's 時代の捨て駒; the first part is "jidai", usually translated as "era" or similar words. The second is "sutegoma", a term from Shogi (AKA Japanese chess) referring to a piece that you sacrifice, especially a pawn. So "The Sacrificial Pawn of the Era" is a better translation for that track.
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
You're entitled to your opinion, but I completely disagree with the idea that Wing had "bad writing" to such an extent that things like magic terraforming space algae, a disease that makes people age faster, and more nanomachines than the entire Metal Gear Solid franchise should seem like a natural progression.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Not the writing itself, but the writing tendencies. For example, if a writer has a tendency to use heavy handed symbolism or try to stir drama with rule-of-cool, it's a smaller step towards absurd setting props than if the writer focused more on something like character development.AmuroNT1 wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, but I completely disagree with the idea that Wing had "bad writing" to such an extent that things like magic terraforming space algae, a disease that makes people age faster, and more nanomachines than the entire Metal Gear Solid franchise should seem like a natural progression.
My personal take was that Gundam Wing tried to explored some pretty hackneyed ideas in some very hamfisted and cliched (some would say cheap) ways. So much of Gundam Wing revolved around what surmounted the teenage melodrama of pretty people. I loved it as a kid, but looking back it was a pretty self indulgent series. In that sense if that was the tendency of the writier it's much easier to see how that could get carried away into what we got with Frozen Teardrop, because restraint and nuance isn't what that writer does. The writer was already teetering on elements of lavish fantasy romance in Gundam Wing. FT was simply the plunge.
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Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Well, I give it an extra credit for give us full linearts of EW Maganac. But as far as new designs, yeah...AmuroNT1 wrote:Even if you're only in it for the MS, it's not like there's very much there either. The only thing we've actually seen in full is Prometheus, and it's only okay (because there's not much you can do to mess up a straightforward design like Heavyarms). Then you get garbage like Deathscythe's spinoff Warlock having a werewolf mode because...because, and Wing Zero's spinoff Snow White having a crossbow that fires elemental attacks like something out of Final Fantasy.
My girlfriend was a loli.
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
That feel when you actually like the MC setting and the MS battles
Feels good man
In before ''they ruined my childhood memories''
Feels good man
In before ''they ruined my childhood memories''
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Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
The MS battles are fine. I don't like the fact that we still aren't getting enemy aces and instead are forced to fight Mobile Dolls again. That was one of my biggest criticisms of Wing. It worked for the theme but it was boring to watch. Would it kill them to give us 3 or 4 enemy aces that are reoccurring? I don't like that the early novel set up Zechs kids and Katherine as enemies but then quickly had them join up with Preventer. I would have liked to see Prometheus reverse engineered into some suits for the other side. I don't like how every unit is a rehash of past units. I don't like the character assassination. I don't like the clones. I don't like that after 5 years we still haven't seen the main MS. I don't like that the novel goes at a snails pace and gets chapters every once in a blue moon. I don't like that the chapters we do get focus on the terrible back story they are trying to establish.
This had potential but they have squandered all of it and kill all hype with stupid decisions like multiple month hiatuses and peekaboo mobile suits. Sadly I still get hyped each time a chapter comes out. I'm addicted to Gundam Wing.
This had potential but they have squandered all of it and kill all hype with stupid decisions like multiple month hiatuses and peekaboo mobile suits. Sadly I still get hyped each time a chapter comes out. I'm addicted to Gundam Wing.
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Here's the thing... whether it's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" or "Alice in Wonderland" or even "Cinderella", I don't really mind what themes they use for MS, just so long as the way things play out is actually something that leads to two really cool MS (or more) duking it out.
Gundam Wing (to me at least) has always had wacky MS designs, it came out of the G Gundam era (or around that time at least), so it's hard to take any designs that came out of it seriously.
So when people DO take the plot seriously, I have to laugh and say "Why are you doing that to yourself?"
There's a suicidal maniac piloting a giant angel robot with the intent to kill everyone who is his enemy and actually ENDS UP not killing anyone except the guy he didn't mean to kill.
There's a carnie pilot who likes putting clown masks on his gundam... there's a crazy hippie gundam pilot who believes in the "spirit of outer space" (or some mumbo jumbo), there's a chinese guy who thinks EVERYONE IS WEAK and acts like an idiot for most of the plot and yet somehow never gets blown up for the entire series until he DOES IT TO HIMSELF. And then you have a happy-go-lucky drifter who ends up being an ace with no prior explanation or training in his past.
Oh and lest we forget, the President of ESUN has "Gundam Eyebrows".
Did you really think Frozen Teardrop was going to be any better?
Gundam Wing (to me at least) has always had wacky MS designs, it came out of the G Gundam era (or around that time at least), so it's hard to take any designs that came out of it seriously.
So when people DO take the plot seriously, I have to laugh and say "Why are you doing that to yourself?"
There's a suicidal maniac piloting a giant angel robot with the intent to kill everyone who is his enemy and actually ENDS UP not killing anyone except the guy he didn't mean to kill.
There's a carnie pilot who likes putting clown masks on his gundam... there's a crazy hippie gundam pilot who believes in the "spirit of outer space" (or some mumbo jumbo), there's a chinese guy who thinks EVERYONE IS WEAK and acts like an idiot for most of the plot and yet somehow never gets blown up for the entire series until he DOES IT TO HIMSELF. And then you have a happy-go-lucky drifter who ends up being an ace with no prior explanation or training in his past.
Oh and lest we forget, the President of ESUN has "Gundam Eyebrows".
Did you really think Frozen Teardrop was going to be any better?
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
A much better articulation of what I meant when I said "writing tendencies" than my wordy paragraphsMimeblade wrote:Here's the thing... whether it's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" or "Alice in Wonderland" or even "Cinderella", I don't really mind what themes they use for MS, just so long as the way things play out is actually something that leads to two really cool MS (or more) duking it out.
Gundam Wing (to me at least) has always had wacky MS designs, it came out of the G Gundam era (or around that time at least), so it's hard to take any designs that came out of it seriously.
So when people DO take the plot seriously, I have to laugh and say "Why are you doing that to yourself?"
There's a suicidal maniac piloting a giant angel robot with the intent to kill everyone who is his enemy and actually ENDS UP not killing anyone except the guy he didn't mean to kill.
There's a carnie pilot who likes putting clown masks on his gundam... there's a crazy hippie gundam pilot who believes in the "spirit of outer space" (or some mumbo jumbo), there's a chinese guy who thinks EVERYONE IS WEAK and acts like an idiot for most of the plot and yet somehow never gets blown up for the entire series until he DOES IT TO HIMSELF. And then you have a happy-go-lucky drifter who ends up being an ace with no prior explanation or training in his past.
Oh and lest we forget, the President of ESUN has "Gundam Eyebrows".
Did you really think Frozen Teardrop was going to be any better?
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
When did this turn into a thread for hating Wing? Sure it had its awkwardness and I find myself more critical of it than not, but it's nowhere near deserving the Destiny-level malice I'm seeing here. Remember what deserves that malice. Teardrop. Teardrop. Keep repeating it to yourselfses.
Speaking of, I can't believe there's a Meer Campbell impersonator. Is Lacus so great that even her impersonators are impersonated now? What's the world coming to? I feel older than I should. (Sorry Meer, no offense intended, I'm just a wacky one with silly humor.)
Speaking of, I can't believe there's a Meer Campbell impersonator. Is Lacus so great that even her impersonators are impersonated now? What's the world coming to? I feel older than I should. (Sorry Meer, no offense intended, I'm just a wacky one with silly humor.)
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Hey hey. I'm not hating anything here. Just pointing out how some of the stuff we saw in Wing shows certain tendencies the writer had...tendencies which were driven off a cliff in TeardropAmion wrote:When did this turn into a thread for hating Wing? Sure it had its awkwardness and I find myself more critical of it than not, but it's nowhere near deserving the Destiny-level malice I'm seeing here. Remember what deserves that malice. Teardrop. Teardrop. Keep repeating it to yourselfses.
Speaking of, I can't believe there's a Meer Campbell impersonator. Is Lacus so great that even her impersonators are impersonated now? What's the world coming to? I feel older than I should. (Sorry Meer, no offense intended, I'm just a wacky one with silly humor.)
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Which MS count as "wacky"? I'm sure you'll point out the big obvious one (Wing Zero EW because ZOMG ANGEL WINGS), but what about the others?Mimeblade wrote:Here's the thing... whether it's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" or "Alice in Wonderland" or even "Cinderella", I don't really mind what themes they use for MS, just so long as the way things play out is actually something that leads to two really cool MS (or more) duking it out.
Gundam Wing (to me at least) has always had wacky MS designs, it came out of the G Gundam era (or around that time at least), so it's hard to take any designs that came out of it seriously.
...You know, I really hate it when people act like I'm some kind of fool for enjoying something that they don't, or when they try to dismiss things I like as shallow or brainless. As I have said approximately a thousand times since I joined this fandom, Gundam Wing is not Shakespeare; however, at the same time, it's also not plotless tripe designed solely to sell merchandise to girls who are obsessed with bishies. Suggesting that the people who made the show were half-assing it or phoning it in is incredibly insulting.Mimeblade wrote:So when people DO take the plot seriously, I have to laugh and say "Why are you doing that to yourself?"
As for your summaries of the characters, not only are they almost offensively oversimplified, but they're pretty much completely wrong.
-Heero not killing anyone was THE ENTIRE POINT of his character. He's not saying "I'll kill you" as a threat, but to try and convince himself that he can do it. He's a kind-hearted person who's been forced to play the role of an assassin and tried to do it by shutting himself off, despite the fact that his mantra is "Live life by your emotions, so you won't have any regrets."
-Regarding Trowa, there's a pretty big difference between a carnival worker and a "carnie". And he only put a mask on his Gundam once, for a single battle. You kind of ignored every single other aspect of his character.
-Calling Quatre a "crazy hippie"...I don't even know where to begin with this. The whole "Heart of Space" was explained in-story as his belief that there was a way of connecting all people through mutual sympathy, which really isn't that much worse than the concepts of Newtypes from UC or the modern-era shows beating us over the head with "UNDERSTANDING".
-Wu Fei's character arc is one that a lot of people seem to get completely wrong. The whole point is that he's got a very high set of ideals and standards he expects people to live up to (like fighting fair and square) and anyone who can't do that is weak. However, he considers HIMSELF the weakest of all because he can't meet his own standards; people love pointing out his blowing up those barracks, but tend not to remember the part where he chews himself out for doing it afterwards.
-And even Duo, who you were relatively mild towards, you got wrong. He projects an upbeat attitude to mask the pain of all the tragedy he's been through. As for the ace thing, are we supposed to know every single aspect of the characters' lives in detail? We can't just assume that he underwent training once he signed on to use the Gundam?
This, right here, is the core of the problem: You're taking something and fixating on only the most absurd elements while ignoring everything else. Yes, let's reduce a character to nothing more than the most visible physical feature she has. Forget her personality, her backstory, all that boring crap, it's all about ZOMG EYEBROWS.Mimeblade wrote:Oh and lest we forget, the President of ESUN has "Gundam Eyebrows".
I also enjoy Kamen Rider, which is a Japanese series about stuntmen dressed as bug-themed superheroes fighting rubber monsters. But that doesn't mean the franchise is stupid; dismissing it for superficial reasons like that means ignoring the excellent writing, stellar performances, and beautifully-choreographed fight scenes that made it a pop culture icon. But really, you can make ANYTHING sound stupid if you boil down its base concept far enough. You could just as easily mock Doctor Who fans for getting worked up about an immortal alien traveling through time in a phone booth.
I neither expected nor WANTED Frozen Teardrop in the first place. I was satisfied with the conclusion we got in Endless Waltz and didn't think there was a good way to continue it. And now that we've got it, I wish we hadn't, because it's been nothing but poor and/or lazy writing, character derailment, completely illogical motivations, science that sounds like it was written by a five-year-old, and worst of all, it's been dragged out for five years.Mimeblade wrote:Did you really think Frozen Teardrop was going to be any better?
Or to put it simply, everything you seem to think Gundam Wing was, Frozen Teardrop actually IS. And you're essentially sitting back with a bucket of popcorn and watching the pretty explosions while calling me a fool for not doing the same.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)
-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
I love how AmuroNT1 is defensive of Wing and Try
- Deacon Blues
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Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
It was never really explained much how Dorothy ascended to the throne of the Earth Sphere. Not only that, but one could say she never really changed in the story since she's the one ordering the assassination of Relena, which essentially throws the entire peaceful era back into the clutches of war. But, then again, being a Romefeller girl growing up, it only makes sense why she'd wear a mask for so long...
As for the Heart of Space philosophy, that explanation for Quatre has been retooled into being pacifistic bologna spouted by the original Heero Yuy or something like that.
As for Glory, the story still bothers me because it's skipping over so much of the material that happened in the original series... and making fruitcake Treize even more philosophical in nature :/
Blargh!
As for the Heart of Space philosophy, that explanation for Quatre has been retooled into being pacifistic bologna spouted by the original Heero Yuy or something like that.
As for Glory, the story still bothers me because it's skipping over so much of the material that happened in the original series... and making fruitcake Treize even more philosophical in nature :/
Blargh!
Re: Gundam Wing GOL/FT/MG new stuff THREAD
Fauxlosophical*Deacon Blues wrote: As for Glory, the story still bothers me because it's skipping over so much of the material that happened in the original series... and making fruitcake Treize even more philosophical in nature :/
Blargh!