Dawn of the Zaku

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toysdream
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Dawn of the Zaku

So we've had some recent Zaku-related threads (like this one and this one and this one), and about two years ago I rounded up some info on the MS-01 through MS-04, but I think it's been a while since we revisited what we know about the early versions of the Zaku I and Zaku II.

There's actually some new info on this thanks to the MSV-R series, and it's gotten me to go back and look again at some of the older sources. As usual, there are multiple sets of conflicting claims about the timing of the MS-05 and MS-06 series, but the general outline is pretty consistent even if nobody can agree exactly what model numbers are involved.


Prototype Zaku:
The date of U.C. 0074.02 has long been said to be the rollout date of the Zaku's prototype version. Gundam Century originally used this date for the rollout of the MS-03, but later sources have claimed it was a prototype version of the MS-05.


Competition:
The competition between the Zaku and the Zudah is generally placed at the beginning of U.C. 0075, and according to MS Igloo, the Zaku tested here was the YMS-05 version.


Zaku I Early Production:
According to Entertainment Bible 1, the first combat model of the Zaku I rolled out in U.C. 0075.05, and the initial production run continued until February of the following year. The Principality officially decided to adopt the Zaku in U.C. 0075.07, which is also when the first Musai-class cruiser was commissioned. The timeline in Data Collection 2 changes that Zaku rollout date to U.C. 0075.08, but that's probably just a typo, because the event is still listed before U.C. 0075.07 in the timeline. At any rate, the Principality goes on to organize a Mobile Training Battalion in U.C. 0075.11.

There's some disagreement as to which model of the Zaku I was being produced at this point. Even in the Master Grade kit manuals, some say that U.C. 0075.05 marked the rollout of the MS-05A, while others say that this is when production shifted from the early MS-05A to the final MS-05B. I guess the latter might make sense if you think the MS-05A rolled out in U.C. 0074, but the MS-05A was always supposed to be the version used to form the Mobile Training Battalion, so I think it makes way more sense to say that the "combat model" rolled out in U.C. 0075.05 was the A type.


Zaku I Later Production:
Entertainment Bible 1 claimed that the initial production run of the Zaku I ended in U.C. 0076.02. According to Data Collection II, the Principality expanded its mobile suit production facilities in U.C. 0076.04, which would be a fine time to transition to the MS-05B type based on all that data from the training battalion. The Mobile Training Battalion, meanwhile, begins practicing combat maneuvers in U.C. 0076.05, which does suggest that its testing role is now completed.

It seems that Zaku I production continues through the end of U.C. 0077, at which point the Principality has finished organizing all its mobile suit units, and they've already begun using them in battle. According to the Master Grade kit manuals, the final production run of the MS-05B begins in U.C. 0077.10.


Zaku II Early Production:
There's universal agreement that mass production of the Zaku II began in U.C. 0078.01, but again, there's no consensus as to which version was being produced. The Master Grade kit manuals and other sources are pretty much evenly split between the MS-06A and the MS-06C.

Most sources, including the Zeon Military File CD-ROM and Data Collection 2, say that the prototype MS-06A version was completed in U.C. 0077.08. Data Collection 2 says that the MS-06C was completed the following month, but I think more recent sources cast that in question. In particular, the MSV-R series claims that the MS-06A was being used for mock combat tests and performance demonstrations around U.C. 0077.12 to U.C. 0078.01, which suggests that it was still being evaluated for mass production at this point.

Incidentally, the MSV-R series claims that a total of 91 MS-06A units were produced, including prototypes. (The Perfect Grade kit manuals claim 84 units, but we can always say that excludes seven prototype units.) Soon after an initial production run at Zum City, parts were shipped throughout Side 3 airspace to begin "knockdown" production. The MSV-R series says that a total of 72 units were produced and deployed in the first and second production runs, which presumably refers to the "knockdown" production throughout Side 3. If we mash all this info together, we might get something like this:

U.C. 0077.08: Rollout of prototype MS-06A. A total of 7 are completed.
U.C. 0077: Initial production of 12 units at Zum City.
U.C. 0078.01: Mass production begins throughout Side 3 airspace.
U.C. 0078: A total of 72 units are produced in the first and second mass production runs.


Zaku II Later Production:
So if mass production begins with the MS-06A, then when is the MS-06C introduced? According to some of the Master Grade kit manuals, in U.C. 0078.06. In fact, the MS-06R kit manuals say that this is also when the Principality first drafted plans for a higher-performance model that eventually became the High Mobility Type. For the time being, though, the MS-06S and MS-06FS were developed as stopgaps.

Whew! That's probably more than enough for the time being...

-- Mark
toysdream
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Okay, let's conclude!

In the previous post, I noted that mass production of the Zaku II begins in U.C. 0078.01, and on the basis of the MSV-R series I plumped for the theory that this was the MS-06A model. Accordingly, I put the start of MS-06C production at U.C. 0078.06, as per the Master Grade MS-06R and Perfect Grade MS-06F kit manuals.


MS-06S Production:
As per the Master Grade MS-06R kit manuals, when full-scale production of the MS-06C began, the Principality also drafted plans for a higher-performance version. However, this was shelved so that they could concentrate on mass production, and the MS-06S and MS-06FS were created as stopgaps.

Although the MS-06S has usually been identified as a variant of the F type, many of the recent sources claim it was produced alongside the C type, and it's often said that its production and deployment was concentrated in the later half of U.C. 0078. The MSV-R series also claims that, when the MS-06A was phased out, one of the prototype units was turned into a testbed for the MS-06S. In this case, the C and S types would be produced simultaneously, and the MS-06FS might be a later version of the S type produced on MS-06F production lines.


MS-06F production:
A range of claims on this. Some older sources said that the F type was introduced after the signing of the Antarctic Treaty, but more often it's dated to just before the start of the war. The Master Grade MS-06F/J kit manual claims that both the F and J types rolled out in late September of U.C. 0078, just before Zeon's national mobilization, while the Perfect Grade MS-06F manual says that F type production begins in December. I guess this could be a gradual shift, though.


MS-06J production:
A wide range of claims here. The Master Grade MS-06F/J kit manual dates the J type to late September, and says that about 80 units had already been completed as of next month's national mobilization. The old Zeon Military File CD-ROM said the prototype was completed on U.C. 0079.01.15. And the Master Grade MS-06J Ver.2.0 kit manual says that full-scale production began in February of U.C. 0079, as the Earth invasion operation was implemented.

Even the MSV and MSV-R series contradict each other a bit on this. The MSV series insists that the J type wasn't deployed until the second Earth landing operation, on U.C. 0079.03.11, which supports the idea of a late rollout. On the other hand, the MSV-R series says that one of the leftover MS-06A prototypes was turned into a testbed for the J type, which suggests a much earlier rollout.

In this case, I'm inclined to go with the later set of dates - prototype in January, mass production in February, deployment in March. This would mean the J type was developed roughly in parallel with the prototype Gouf, which was also deployed in the Earth landing operations.

So here's a continuation of the previous timeline, using the MS-06C and MS-06F dates from the Perfect Grade kit manuals...

U.C. 0079.06: Mass production of MS-06C begins. MS-06S production begins soon after.
U.C. 0079.12: Mass production of MS-06F begins.
U.C. 0079.01.15: Rollout of prototype MS-06J.
U.C. 0079.02: Mass production of MS-06J begins.
U.C. 0079.03.11: MS-06J deployed in second Earth landing operation.


MS-05 deployment:
Meanwhile, what happened to all those MS-05 units that were already in service? We're told that the formation of all combat units had been completed by the end of U.C. 0077, and that by the outbreak of war, a lot of these combat units have been switched over to the MS-06 series. In the process, the old MS-05 machines were reassigned to support and logistics duties.

However, according to the Master Grade MS-0B kit manuals, the reorganization of the Zeon military in U.C. 0078.10 - in which the forces were split into separate branches controlled by Dozle and Kycilia - effectively doubled the number of mobile suits the Zeon forces required. As a result, a lot of the surplus MS-05 machines were put back into service with combat units, even though the difference in performance made it hard for them to operate alongside the newer Zaku II.

This really helps explain the upgraded MS-05Q featured in the MSV-R series. Supposedly, the Principality planned to overhaul 240 old machines during U.C. 0078, with only 162 upgrades actually completed. As a last-minute rush job to get the numbers up, this makes perfect sense to me.

-- Mark
Enileph
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

While this may or maynot be of importance, Zeon MS are frequently converted between types. Also, many sources sight "early Production Type (premature production type?)" as opposed to A type in some roll outs, so there seems to be some difference on that. There are also come conversions donne for testing purpose, but those are only special cases than spans a couple MS.

On MS-05. The Early Production Types gets converted to MS-05A and finally MS-05B. Remaining ones goes into MS-05S, or become snipers MS-05L, or other support MS duties. Some are converted into MS-06. There are a few customized builds, but the variants are nowhere as numerous as MS-06.

MS-06. Early Production types and MS-06A gets converted, mostly into MS-06C. Earthbound MS-06C types are often converted into MS-06J in ground based battles, or into other variants. Also, when "The F Project" is launched many are standardized into MS-06F and MS-06F2. Supposedly there was a plan to upgrade some existing older model Zaku into MS-06Fz. A lot of localized variants are refits rather than straight up production. Obviously I am missing out the piles of customized units, one-offs, testbeds and the like. MS-06 series have materials enough to make a few books.
toysdream
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

There are some people who identify the MS-06A as a "pre-mass production type" (先行量産型) - you'll see this on WIkipedia, for example. But I don't think I've ever seen it claimed that there was a pre-production run before the MS-06A, or before MS-05A for that matter. Do you have any source for that?

Likewise for the idea that all the old MS-05 units get upgraded into the MS-05S or MS-06 or whatever. The only confirmed MS-05 upgrades I can think of are the MS-05L Sniper Type, and the MS-05Q from the MSV-R series. Again, any sources for the other stuff?

The MSV-R series (and the Johnny Ridden comic) do say that the old MS-06A units were refitted to match the MS-06C, and based on the profile text it seems this happened around September of U.C. 0078. Likewise, the MSV books say that the F types initially deployed in the Earth invasion were later converted to J types. But I don't recall seeing any reference to an "early production type" before the MS-06A, or to C types being deployed on Earth, or to an "F Project" that upgraded existing C types into F types. That's a lot of information to take on faith, no matter how interesting it may sound, and since I always try to cite sources for my info I think it's fair to ask the same in return. :-)

-- Mark
Enileph
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Sorry for my lack of exact books and sources, it has been a while and my memory is blurred, but I can try to give pointers to where the things are likely from, please fill in the correct info if you find them. Thanks, and Sieg Zeon!

MS-06A as "pre-mass production type" (先行量産型) indeed, which is the term I was looking for. My reference was that there was mentioning of the MS-06A(nuclear wartype type) being converted from an early version of MS-06A, which seems to suggest that there are some created before the standard MS-06A runs. There is also a chance that those are converted test units from MS-05(?).

For MS-05 upgrades, they are also mentioned in the fluff (comic footnote and otherwise) surrounding the game that give us RX-78-6, and the one about RX-78-7. Both of the fluff seems to mention upgrades being added to some of the functional MS-05 in the form of MS-05S, although the majority of these are used as defence and second line units, unlike the ones used by the ace pilot in the story (think midnight fenrir, and the one used by the invisible knights). I do not have details of the conversion, but it does mention something about sensors and engine upgrade. Most conversion would be MS-05B I guess, with a select few being MS-05L.

For the C types that is converted to the F type, it was in one of those talks on zakus in Dengeki article I guess. See Below.

As for "F Project", I forgot the whole name, but it is M'quv's project to standardize the Zeonic ms equipment and things, the famous project that give us MS-09F and what not. I think you know what I am talking about. In that it mentions that existing old zakus are slowly converting to F(or F2?) types. It makes sense that this would include the C type also, since it is definitely the old zaku model. Most native J type(not the converted ones) would need quite some work to be space-worthy.
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

The adaptation of one type of Zaku, both MS-05 & MS-06, to another type without manufacturing new frames makes sense from WW II. Many armored vehicles and aircraft were listed as changing a model designation. The frame and general characteristics did not change much, but there would be a new engine, or a new armament, or some other change that had to be noted for the official record. The MS-06 frame was intended to be a general purpose attack platform, and so was open to adaptation. I would say that if we put all the main MS-05 or MS-06 models side by side, we would see very little change in the main frame, but a plethora of minor changes in the backpack, lower legs, head, and right arm shield. That would speak more to the early models being reworked into later models, which of course would also make sense in terms of economy and pilot training.
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toysdream
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Hm, this is still pretty vague as far as sourcing. You mentioned a nuclear warhead-equipped version of the MS-06A, which sounds vaguely familiar, but do you remember where it's from? A game, a manga, a custom model build...?

As for the MS-05S, you're right that this appears in "Zeonic Front" (the game that featured the RX-78-6). The game doesn't provide any explanation for it, though.

And the upgrade project you're thinking of is the "United Maintenance Plan" (統合整備計画). This was a project to create new, more efficient mass production types; most of these were newly produced, but some sources (like Entertainment Bible 1) have claimed that the MS-06FZ was created by upgrading existing F types. It's never been claimed, though, that any older machines were upgraded by this project, or that they were upgraded to anything other than FZ types.

-- Mark
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

toysdream wrote:As for the MS-05S, you're right that this appears in "Zeonic Front" (the game that featured the RX-78-6). The game doesn't provide any explanation for it, though.
-- Mark
The game describes the MS enough for game purposes, but there is not any listed data as you desired. I played through once far enough to use it a couple of times. :) (Only in simulation play though, it doesn't get used in missions. :P ) My understanding from its description and game play is that the MS-05S is the colonel's personal custom unit, and it has no comparable unit, at least on Earth. It has a Zaku II-style shield, a heat sword instead of a hawk, and the ranged weapon choices are a 90mm rifle or a Raketen baz. Sensors are much better than any Zaku I or Zaku II, and a combat option is to whistle up some Magella units to blast targets for you. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Zeonista on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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toysdream
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

The only other reference to the MS-05S that I can think of is in Entertainment Bible 39, which lists this as one of the units used by Gabby Hazard. So I guess it's down to him and Gellert Schmeisser?

-- Mark
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

toysdream wrote:The only other reference to the MS-05S that I can think of is in Entertainment Bible 39, which lists this as one of the units used by Gabby Hazard. So I guess it's down to him and Gellert Schmeisser?

-- Mark
Yeah, it's max upgrade for the older Zeon officers who never advanced to Gelgoog or Dom standard. "This is no Zaku I, boy!" :)
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Interestingly, in Zeonic Front, the MS-05S is actually a bit inferior to the standard MS-05B (as the game guide books point out). So perhaps it's actually a command version of the MS-05A, with which it shares a lot of surface details...

-- Mark
Enileph
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

toysdream wrote:Hm, this is still pretty vague as far as sourcing. You mentioned a nuclear warhead-equipped version of the MS-06A, which sounds vaguely familiar, but do you remember where it's from? A game, a manga, a custom model build...?

As for the MS-05S, you're right that this appears in "Zeonic Front" (the game that featured the RX-78-6). The game doesn't provide any explanation for it, though.

And the upgrade project you're thinking of is the "United Maintenance Plan" (統合整備計画). This was a project to create new, more efficient mass production types; most of these were newly produced, but some sources (like Entertainment Bible 1) have claimed that the MS-06FZ was created by upgrading existing F types. It's never been claimed, though, that any older machines were upgraded by this project, or that they were upgraded to anything other than FZ types.

-- Mark
The Nuclear Warhead units is mentioned in a few of the articles about nuclear weaponary use in OYW as well as some zaku related articles. It is also a usable unit in some Gihren's Greed games.

Other than Fz Types of Zaku I think the claim in some version go as far as to convert existing units concerned into "United Maintenance Plan". Which means some equipment conversion and what not. That include model conversion. I think for the existing "general use" Zaku the plan is to either convert to Fz as you have said, and upgrade some to F2 (or F as I am not sure about this still) since it is cheaper and easier to maintain. Not sure how well the plan is doing though, but at least on paper it is supposed to do that.

Oh, MS-05S also exist in the game in the arcade pilot pods, "Senjo no Kizuna". The weaponary features bazookas of various types, from the rakatta (ラケーテン・バズ) to normal ones (ザク・バズーカ) to early type (ザク・バズーカ 最初期型). Also there is a Zaku Rifle type weaponary (90mm アサルト ライフル), typical zaku granades, and arm mounted missile launcher a la Desert Zaku (ミサイル・ランチャー). Oh this one uses typical Zaku Heat Axe.

And I think the DOM series is involved in the "United Maintenance Plan" on the side note. They get converted into F I think, but despite my love of DOM I am quite unsure about how the DOM series is involved in it and how things are going. Although judging from how rare F type DOM are in spaceespecially when it comes to some variants I am not sure how well the convertions go.
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Enileph wrote:The Nuclear Warhead units is mentioned in a few of the articles about nuclear weaponary use in OYW as well as some zaku related articles. It is also a usable unit in some Gihren's Greed games.
Maybe you're thinking of the MS-06C. This is often mentioned as a nuclear weapon-equipped type in the Japanese publications, and a nuke-equipped MS-06C is a playable unit in Gihren's Greed.
Other than Fz Types of Zaku I think the claim in some version go as far as to convert existing units concerned into "United Maintenance Plan".
I don't think I've ever seen this claim - aside from the possible F-to-FZ conversion, every other description of the United Maintenance Plan I've seen only refers to production of new units, not upgrades to existing ones. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source for this.
And I think the DOM series is involved in the "United Maintenance Plan" on the side note. They get converted into F I think, but despite my love of DOM I am quite unsure about how the DOM series is involved in it and how things are going. Although judging from how rare F type DOM are in spaceespecially when it comes to some variants I am not sure how well the convertions go.
But every source I've seen says the F type Dom is a newly produced unit, not an upgrade.

The only place I've seen a discussion of how the MS-09F relates to the United Maintenance Plan is in the HG-UC kit manual, which says...
The design base for the Dom Tropen was the MS-09F Dom Funf, a machine that was independently developed by Zimmad following the announcement of the United Maintenance Plan at the end of the One Year War, with the goal of improving the specs of the Dom itself. Each component was thoroughly standardized and modularized, to make it capable of greater adaptive diversity than Zeonic's Zaku. Thus variations could be produced in response to demands from the front lines, and it appears that most of the units actually produced were of the so-called tropical type.
This stops short of saying that the Dom Funf was actually part of the United Maintenance Plan, but as we've seen with the Zaku F2, Zeon's engineers started using parts and equipment from this plan in the production of existing machines as soon as they were available.

-- Mark
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Thanks for the info!
So the nuclear type is indeed just a MS-06C then. I would have expacted otherwise given the different look and the mentioning of heat resistant materials and what not on them. In this case then the nuclear units would be produced from an early MS-06C version, which might be those converted from MS-06A. If that is so then evetything makes sense now. Then according to that logic MS-06A will be the first Zaku II model that is produced, aside from any MS-05 based test units.

Thank you for finding the Dom related material for me also, since I have always wondered how they are going with the DOM series. I know about the Dom Funf as well as a few of the on-paper mostly variants , like the one with giant sword (the sword shows up with a Dom Funf in CDA) and the one with no legs. But I have always thought the Funf project is somewhat on the backburner so to say, given that they are working on the Gelgoog at the time when it comes to budget (I know it is a different company but still).

I will try dig out the F2 info for you.

PS: It is for these reasons I love Zeonic MS. GM just don't have the same background and history... the development is a bit bleak relatively, even with the new projects of trying to enrich their timeline and variants.
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

As usual, there's disagreement on how different the nuclear-armed MS-06C was from other versions of the Zaku II. Some sources (like EB 1 and the early-edition MS Encyclopedia) say that the C type had extra radiation shielding, which was omitted from the F type after the Antarctic Treaty. But it's more common now for publications to describe the C type as a standard-issue machine with no special provisions for nuclear warfare, just a different ammo type for its bazooka.

As for the poor old GM, there's only so much you can do given its late arrival on the scene. Most attempts to flesh out its development tree just make things implausibly complicated, although I do think the breakdown of the successive "production runs" in the MSV-R books was pretty interesting.

-- Mark
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

I bet the Zaku II-C got de-shielded after someone noted that an unarmed 280mm bazooka warhead was no more dangerous to handle than the standard variety. It's only what happened after the warhead was armed that made it different. ;) Also, the animation never showed any difference between the C & F types, so why bother adding unseen pieces to make them different? Somehow the "-F" designation was added to remind the armory techs, "don't load the nukes now".
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

The notion that the C type has nuclear shielding that was removed in the F type only makes sense if you assume the F type was introduced after the Antarctic Treaty. Some older sources claimed that, and I think it's not contradicted by the MSV books (which say that most of the Zeon aces started out using C types at the beginning of the war, and then received F types after the Battle of Loum).

But most current sources, as we've just seen, say the F type was introduced before the start of the war. In that case, it should have the same nuclear warfare features - or lack thereof - as the C type, and the only differences between the two types are minor technical improvements. That seems to be current consensus.

-- Mark
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Was the MS-05Q originally conceived as an upgrade to modify MS-05B into MS-06A (at a time when the design was yet to be modified into the MS-06C). In such case, not only could both units be meant to have similar performance, but it could also eman that both untis were designed around the same time.

As for the whole nuclear MS-06C, I think that simply some MS-06C were given the proper shielding for using such weapons, the same way the MS-05B from 08th MS team is seen equipped with additional protection around the frame and hands for using GG gas:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ms-05 ... gasser.jpg

As for the MS-05S from Zeonic Front, I should point out that its pilot was crippled after the One Week War and supposedly the machine is only used in simulations, so it might not even physically exist. Besides, we also have Ramba Ral's unit which is simply considered a custom MS-05B.

The game also added several unique elements, such as two Zeon sniper rifles (an early 120mm one and a late 90mm one). Besides the MS-05S, the game also introduced designs for a MS-05B land warfare type, a white MS-07A and an odd MS-09F Dom Funf:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-05B_Zak ... rfare_Type
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-07A_Gouf
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/File:MS-09F_Dom_Funf.JPG

The weirdest thing about this MS-09F Dom Funf is that the game also includes a regular MS-09F/trop which is clearly the same design as the 0083 OVA. This green Dom Funf actually looks a lot like a regular Dom but with unique shoulder armor.
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

Yeah, I've been working on doing a little analysis of the Dom Funf for a while, but I really wanted to have the in-game models for comparison. Sufficed to say, it seems that people only ASSUMED the Funf looked like the Tropen, since its appearances in other media like Gundam War and Card Builder show that the more ordinary Zeonic Front design is the Funf's actual appearance.
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Re: Dawn of the Zaku

toysdream wrote:As usual, there's disagreement on how different the nuclear-armed MS-06C was from other versions of the Zaku II. Some sources (like EB 1 and the early-edition MS Encyclopedia) say that the C type had extra radiation shielding, which was omitted from the F type after the Antarctic Treaty. But it's more common now for publications to describe the C type as a standard-issue machine with no special provisions for nuclear warfare, just a different ammo type for its bazooka
-- Mark
Well, Gundam Officials does say the C-type was designed with consideration of using nuclear weapons, so there is radiation shielding material stuffed into the space in between the multi-layered armour.
The F-type upgrade included not only removing the radiation shielding material, but changed the structure of the armour to composite armour from the multi-layered armour. Other than that, there's also the extra shock absorption system around the cockpit and weapon mounting system on its arm.
Ver.1.5 also confirmed C-type as a nuclear resistant design.

Other publications seems to just entirely ignore describing the A and C-type differences from the F-type. The MG manual (both 1.0 and 2.0) and RG went so far as to listing the MS-06F comes from MS-05, with only a little mention about the A-type and little to no wording about the C-type.

To me, the lack of new information means that we just look at the older information as canon, so I stick with Gundam Officials' info, the C-type has radiation shielding.(just not as sophisticated as the GP02A)
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