MS-18E Kampfer for space combat?

[mikethemod1992]

I'm developing a OYW comic and I can't figure out what mobile suit to use for the main Zeon character in space.

I'm stuck between the Gelgoog Jager(or marine), and the Kampfer

I know it was only experimental, but in the opinions of those here, does the Kampfer have any features that would have it excel or hinder it in Space battles? (Propulsion, Maneuverability, Range, etc)

Thanks

[Wingnut]

Not really in terms of what enviroment it operates in, but rather it's limits come from the Kampher's mission role as a fast attack mobile suit designed to get in hit the target hard and get out all in a hurry and be quick and agile enough to not get hit by return fire while doing so. With all those thrusters if the pilot kept going 100%, he might run out of fuel sooner then a general purpose MS. That's about it really from what I can recall.

[Dark Duel]

I'm developing a OYW comic and I can't figure out what mobile suit to use for the main Zeon character in space.

I'm stuck between the Gelgoog Jager(or marine), and the Kampfer

I know it was only experimental, but in the opinions of those here, does the Kampfer have any features that would have it excel or hinder it in Space battles? (Propulsion, Maneuverability, Range, etc)

Thanks

It has, from what I recall, absurdly good maneuverability and speed. Range I imagine would be an issue, but as long as the pilot is smart about fuel consumption he should be okay.
Its main problem IIRC is that its armor is pretty light.
Honestly, I think you're better off with the Gelgoog Jäger or the Marine. Personally I would recommend the Marine, but I'm biased that way.

[AmuroNT1]

There's nothing preventing the Kampfer from being used in space at all; in fact, it's spaceworthy in every of its video game appearances. But as has been pointed out, it's an assault-type MS (the "E" in its model number stands for "Einhauen", the German word for "one strike"). That means it's intended for single strikes, not extended combat; the proof of that is its arsenal consisting almost entirely of throw-down guns and its armor, despite being Luna Titanium just like the Gundam, getting shredded by the Alex's 90mm Gatlings.

So basically, unless you're planning on having your character never get touched by enemy fire, you should probably stick with something else.

[mikethemod1992]

Thanks for the input.

I was thinking of using it for a single appearance, like specifically for getting shredded by the main EFSF pilot, then they'll come back later in a Gelgoog/Dom or something of that nature.

[AGF-Antoine]

In Ecole Du Ciel, the Kampfer Prototype was used in space to great effect.

But yea, keep in mind the fuel consumption and the armor being easily pierced.
Which both can be an issue for space use.

The prototype version does seem to have more armor, so you might want to use that instead.


AGF-Antoine

[Gelgoog Jager]

By the way, where does the idea of the Kampfer lacking armor comes from?

I tried looking around at some official sites, but they don't actually mention anything regarding that:

Gundam 0080 official site's Zeon MS profiles

Kampfer's profile at Gundam Official

For comparison, the Zaku FZ's high fuel consumption do is mentioned on its profile:

Zaku Kai's profile at Gundam Official

Speaking of fuel, given that the other two UMP MS, the Rick Dom II and the Gelgoog Jaeger use external propellant tanks, could we assume that the Zaku FZ and Kampfer can also optionally use them?

[Dark Duel]

By the way, where does the idea of the Kampfer lacking armor comes from?

I think part of that stems from how easily the Kämpfer's armor was shredded by the Alex's arm-mounted Gatling Guns. I don't know if any supplemental sources ever mentioned it - maybe Mark would be able to shed some light on that.

Speaking of fuel, given that the other two UMP MS, the Rick Dom II and the Gelgoog Jaeger use external propellant tanks, could we assume that the Zaku FZ and Kampfer can also optionally use them?

That's a logical question, and theoretically not impossible. However, looking at the rear views of both mobile suits (The Kämpfer and Zaku Kai), I see nowhere for the propellant tanks to possibly be attached, so it doesn't look like it.

[BrentD15]

By the way, where does the idea of the Kampfer lacking armor comes from?

I think part of that stems from how easily the Kämpfer's armor was shredded by the Alex's arm-mounted Gatling Guns. I don't know if any supplemental sources ever mentioned it - maybe Mark would be able to shed some light on that.

Speaking of fuel, given that the other two UMP MS, the Rick Dom II and the Gelgoog Jaeger use external propellant tanks, could we assume that the Zaku FZ and Kampfer can also optionally use them?

That's a logical question, and theoretically not impossible. However, looking at the rear views of both mobile suits (The Kämpfer and Zaku Kai), I see nowhere for the propellant tanks to possibly be attached, so it doesn't look like it.

Correct.
And due to the high fuel consumption of both mobile suits, their operating times would be relatively lower.

[mikethemod1992]

"Speaking of fuel, given that the other two UMP MS, the Rick Dom II and the Gelgoog Jaeger use external propellant tanks, could we assume that the Zaku FZ and Kampfer can also optionally use them?"

Well....there's also this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/ ... d6edbb.jpg

[domino]

I guess there's no limit to what can be done via "field modifications" eh?

While others have mentioned quite correctly that the Gelgoog has better armour, I guess one question may also be: Can the Kaempfer use beam weapons the same way that the Gelgoog does?

Armour basically becomes a moot point when talking about high calibre solid rounds and beam weaponry - Gelgoog or not.

However, it's a fanfiction so it's really up to you - make it a Kaempfer Custom that has the properties that you require

[mikethemod1992]

I guess there's no limit to what can be done via "field modifications" eh?

While others have mentioned quite correctly that the Gelgoog has better armour, I guess one question may also be: Can the Kaempfer use beam weapons the same way that the Gelgoog does?

Armour basically becomes a moot point when talking about high calibre solid rounds and beam weaponry - Gelgoog or not.

Apparently there's reference in a model kit to the MS-18F Beam weapon type Kampfer, but I can't find any specs on it, as far as power source/armour/etc goes.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/a ... 824291.jpg

However, it's a fanfiction so it's really up to you - make it a Kaempfer Custom that has the properties that you require

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Just trying to think of a practical application for a suit like that. Zeon remnants turned space pirates perhaps?

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I doubt at least the E-Type Kampfer can use beam weapons. I'd assume that a lot of its reactor power is focused towards its thrusters, which is why it's largely armed with conventional weapons (which are also easier to acquire and maintain than beam weapons, despite the extra weight due to physical ammunition).

[AmuroNT1]

Well....there's also this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/ ... d6edbb.jpg

Problem there is, the Silver Lance was a one-off kit-bashed unit made by Zeon die-hards for one purpose: blowing the hell out of the colony Zuum as "revenge" for their surrendering to the Federation. Having another one appear out of nowhere doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Also, that pic isn't the Beam Weapons Kampfer, it's the Prototype Kampfer as seen in the Zeonography action figure line. It just comes with a big-ass machinegun.

[mikethemod1992]

Are there any actual photos of the F type Kampfer? Or is it left to speculation?

[InjuredPelican]

The Kampfer is equipped with a beam saber, so it can at least wield close range based beam weapons, and maybe lower powered long range weapons, but i am no expert on beam weapon requirements.

This is my bias, but I would choose Gelgoog Jaeger, as the Gelgoog is very nearly the equal of the Gundam, while Kampfer seems a few notches below still. You could still have the Kampfer though, and even introduce a new customized version for a different sort of mission altogether. Could be cool to try and establish it as a truly modifiable MS.

[domino]

It's up to you whether or not you stay canon....don't sweat the details too much

Honestly, die-hard Gundam fans will be more interested in knowing that your story and characters are interesting moreso than knowing that you adhered to the "proper" fuel consumption ratio of each mobile suit while detailing the battle scenes.

[Gelgoog Jager]

EDIT: Also, that pic isn't the Beam Weapons Kampfer, it's the Prototype Kampfer as seen in the Zeonography action figure line. It just comes with a big-ass machinegun.

I will have to dig it later, but wasn't that weapon depicted as a beam weapon in the Ecole du Ciel manga (IIRC it was shown in one of the volumes that didn't make it over here)?

We do know that Cima's beam machinegun used a drum-like E-cap, and we also have the more recent Gelgoog beam rifle w/grenade launcher includes bipod legs, so it might not be completely out of the question for that to be the case.

That being said, considering that the Galbaldy Alpha and Galbaldy Beta use the same beam rifle as the Gelgoog, I see little reason for the Kampfer not using the same weapon, if capable of using them.

And as much as I hate remarking the bad points of my namesake, the Gelgoog Jaeger's most common complain seems to be the lack of melee weapons. I would like to assume that at the very least it must have the option to externally mount a beam saber or beam naginata, or that it has conclealed beam sabers, much like the ones found in the Gelgoog Marine.

However the truth is that we have no indication of either, and the Gelgoog Jaeger seems to be meant to only serve as a sniper or at most a middle ranged combat unit with no melee capabilities. I don't see as a direct equivalent to the Gundam Alex (general purpose MS) or Kampfer (assault type MS).

In fact it would seem that all the UMP MS seem to have some very specific role, with the Zaku FZ most likely meant for defense, to avoid overusing its propellant, and the Rick Dom II probably being the frontline general use unit. The Zaku Kai do is known for being used by the Royal Guard, which do supports the idea of keeping it close to its defense target to avoid overusing its more limited propellant supply. Ultimately many units most have been forced to offensive duties in the frontlines due to the deteriorating war situation, which is more or less what were told about the Jicco and to some extent the Zaku I (also assigned guard and non-combat duties by the end of the war).

[domino]

Keep in mind that the Jaeger is less of a variant and more of an upgrade from the MS-14A so it's unwise to assume that because it's not listed on MAHQ that it doesn't have a beam saber or cannot use one. That's akin to saying that it (or any other mobile suit) can't use a shield because it wasn't listed as having one or shown in animation.

[AmuroNT1]

I will have to dig it later, but wasn't that weapon depicted as a beam weapon in the Ecole du Ciel manga (IIRC it was shown in one of the volumes that didn't make it over here)?

It certainly wouldn't be the first time the Gundam Fix family got information wrong.