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 Post subject: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:30 pm 
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I wanted to ask about some UC ships that seem to suddenly sprout invisible extra guns. A couple of examples I recall at the moment are:

-In Zeta, the Musai Kais that support the Titan fleet during the capture of Von Braun. These suddenly start firing a large amount of beams from underneath their main body, where there shouldn't be any weapons.

-In ZZ, the Argama is attacked while on a base next to the Salt Lake. To repel the attacking Dreissens, the Argama suddenly starts firing beams from all over its hull.

My question is: should we consider these animations errors, or are these supposed to be unlisted weapons? In both examples, these "extra guns" seem to provide some well-needed additional protection for the ships, especially for the Musai Kai which by the commonly known specs, should completely lack any weapons to defend itself from below.

-There's another case in 08th team, but this time I do have the unseen weapons listed among the specs (though missing from Mahq's profile): when the damaged Gaw uses its invisible AA machienguns to attack Karen's descending RX-79[G].

And a couple extra questions:

-Where are the Gray Phantom's missiles launchers, indicated in the specs, located at at?

-Does the Tivvay/Tibe/Chivvay FPT has missile launchers, as seen on the first chapter of the MSV-R manga?


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:56 pm 
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This is not an uncommon error for even live action Sci-fi. The script called for an vessel to fire and the persion drawing the beams drew them where there is no port on the line art to have emitted that beam in the shot. Star trek the next generation had that issue too some of the ships would fire wepions from the wrong spot on the ship model

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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:31 pm 
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The Neo Zeon ships are supposed to have Hyper Mega Particle Cannon style weapons(White Base/Argama) on those circles with 3 yellow stripes


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:52 pm 
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balofo wrote:
The Neo Zeon ships are supposed to have Hyper Mega Particle Cannon style weapons(White Base/Argama) on those circles with 3 yellow stripes

Indeed, the Gwanban, Endra and Sadalahn classes are all supposed to have the same type of Mega Particle Cannon stored in circular yellow hatches as the Argama, but none of the three have been actually shown using them. Furthermore, the Gwanban's top hatch has only been seen opening to deploy the Queen Mansa, making it seem that is the hatch for a secondary MS hangar instead. I think that the same hatch would have been perfect for equipping a Hyper MPC instead.

Since the topic came out, is there any indication of the Argama being inspired by or inspiring the design of an Axis' ship? That could support or reject the idea of these ships sharing the same weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:01 pm 
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I think all the Crossbone Vanguard's(movie) warships have missile launchers according to the lineart(bow section), but they never mention it on profiles.

Audhumula is another armament list nightmare: in the animation we see it firing missiles, beam, and there's the turrets(laser?). Yet the profiles are really vague, hope UC finally resolves this issue in OVA 5.


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:30 pm 
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I don't know much about the Crossbone Vanguard ships, but as for the Audhumla, I do know it has 10 laser guns as indicated in Mahq's profile, which are distributed as follow:

-4 on top of the main body (2 next to each wing)
-4 on the sides of the main body (2 on each side below the wings)
-2 on the wings (1 on each wing next to the vents and aiming to the front)

As for the missile launchers, IIRC at one point the missiles are seen launching from the vents located below the bridge on each side. I think each vent has 3 openings, which would mean that it would have 6 missile launchers or two 3-tube missile launchers. I have to recheck in order to confirm any of this though.


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:28 pm 
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well we can put this in two categories there are the Artillery locations as planned by the mechanical designers and what the actual animators decided to depict in the show. it would seem that some books reference the armaments as the ones listed on the Line-art and some only list the ones shown in the fiction

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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:52 pm 
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JEFFPIATT wrote:
well we can put this in two categories there are the Artillery locations as planned by the mechanical designers and what the actual animators decided to depict in the show. it would seem that some books reference the armaments as the ones listed on the Line-art and some only list the ones shown in the fiction

While its common to see more of the later case (armaments seen in the animation), I do remember the case of the Lili Marleen which I had seen listed with 8 2-barrel machineguns which for a long time I tried to identify. It wasn't until a while ago that I found an old lineart that showed where they were located.

There's also the case of the 0080 ships which seem to be lacking weapons when comapred to their original and later counterparts. With the exemption of the Gray Phantom, they only have their main guns (MPC turrets) mentioned. The Gray Phantom's profile says that it also has missile launchers, but when compared to the other OYW Pegasus ships, the sections which are the missile launchers in the other ships of the class are notably missing in the 0080 design.

In the case of Zeon's Musai FPT, the other common weapon of the Musai class, its missile launchers, are not mentioned nor can be clearly identified. The reduction of weapons could be justified by the fact that the ship itself is supposed to be a more economical version of the Musai which is meant to be produced in larger numbers.

Next we have the Tivvay/Chivvay FPT, which is missing the original Chivvay's missile launchers and machineguns (the MS Igloo version even added a third turret on the bottom of the ship). AFAIK, the only reference that seems to give the Tivvay/Chivvay FPT another weapon is the MSV-R manga which shows it launching a large amount of missiles, though its unclear from which section were they fired. Another interesting fact is that while the regualr Chivvay was a battleship that was reclassfied as a heavy cruiser, the Tivvay/Chivvay FPT is once again classfied as a battleship.

Finally we have the Gray Phantom. Besides the missile launchers, which I mentioned above, the Gray Phantom is a similiar case to the Neo Zeon ships we were talking about: while we can clearly see the two yellow hatches where Pegasus class ships should have their MPC turrets concealed, just like White Base, though we don't actually see these weapons. If we consider the armament of the White Base, the Gray Phantom should also have a ballistic main gun and some machineguns.

All that said, the truth is that going simply by lineart and animation, it would seem that only White Base and the Albion have their weapon loadouts fully identified. The Thoroughbred and Blanc Rival may have seen depicted with more weapons on some videogames.


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:26 pm 
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If only we had access to HQ lineart with the designer's notes kept... Also don't always trust armaments listed in profiles, they are bogus as well

Ships are even more of a headache because we need large images from all angles to admire the small details, but they always give us small images in only 1 angle. Try counting the Dogosse Gear turrets with those small images...

Anyway my contribution to the topic

a)What appears to be CV's ships rough sketchs

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26 ... 68386.jpg/

b)A piece of info that's obviously shown on both animation and lineart but no one mentions it: the Clop class behind the bridge Missile Launcher. In the movie it fires 4 missiles against Quess, but appears to have 8 launchers in it(no clear view through lineart). Here is the only scan that correctly labels it.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/clopw.jpg/


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:17 pm 
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http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/gwanban.jpg/

Gwanban's hidden mega particle cannon depiction in G Gen F. Didn't the Queen Mantha launch from this hatch in the anime?


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 Post subject: Re: Missing Warship Guns
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:19 am 
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balofo wrote:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/gwanban.jpg/

Gwanban's hidden mega particle cannon depiction in G Gen F. Didn't the Queen Mantha launch from this hatch in the anime?


It looks like a double barrel-version of a hybrid between the Argama's HMPC and the one of the Nahel's Argama.

And yes, in ZZ the Queen Mantha launches from that hatch from the Gwanban. Either the cannon was be removed before the Battle of Axis, internally moved to make space for units stored in that area of the ship to launch from, or the SD ship in the image is the Gwanzan from 0083 or another Gwanban class ship that do was equipped with such weapon.


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