Mecha Talk

I was recently checking the defunct Zeonic Front site through the wayback machine archive and found something interesting among the profiles of the GM types regarding a rather obscure member of the GM series, the RGM-79(GRS) Armored GM.

The main points are::
1-It was deployed around the same time as the Cold Climate GM.
2-It has been equipped for operating in the sand.
3-It is equipped with reactive armor.
4-It was deployed in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

I will talk more about the roll out date in a moment. Before that, I would like to point out that points 2 and 4 would indicate that the Armored GM is intended to be not only a high ground mobility GM variant, but also as a desert/tropical combat unit. In such case, it might be meant to be a modified version or replacement for the Desert GM which also used reactive armor.

BTW, since it doesn't seem to have a more dedicated hovercraft system, I'm considering also that it might rather rely on constant thrust to achieve high mobility, similiar on how some Zeta-era MS move around on the ground during the AEUG's assault on Jaburo. In fact it shares the leg thrusters used on advanced GM varaints such as the GM Sniper II and GM Striker, and much later on the Nemo. Also, in the PS2 game this unit cannot fire a bazooka while on movement, unlike Dom types, which probably hints at some balancing issues when compared to Zeon's Dom.

Now back to the roll out date:

According to this thread, production of the RGM-79D begins on Mid-November. This is consistent with the Blue Destiny manga where Yuu Kajima and his teamates receive their Cold Climate GMs between their first and their second encounters with Blue Destiny Unit 1. According to Mark's timeline, these encounters take place on Mid November and November 29th respectively.

On the manga we are told that Yuu's team is testing these new GM models with 4 thrusters on their backpacks which were developed in order to stand a better chance against Dom types (the armored GM also has 4 thrusters on its backapck). This basically indicates that the Federation already new about Dom types before the Mid September, when, according to the other thread, the design of the RGM-79D was completed.

Basically, this means that the RGM-79D and RGM-79GRS were two different proposals for an improved GM after the Federation found out about Zeon's Dom types. Both models were further modified in order to adapt each to a unique climate.

The early development and deployment of the Armored GM also means that the Murdock Gundam was based on it and not the other way around. For reference, the incomplete Murdock was prematurely deployed during the Zeon's assault on Jaburo on November 30th.

Anyway, while Mahq's profile says that the Armored GM was one of the last GM variants to be produced, mainly due to its only recorded appearance taking place on January 1st, it seems that the RGM-79GRS's deployment date is around Mid November, before the deployment of other GM variants such as the RGM-79C, RGM-79SC and RGM-79SP.

Finally, it's also possible that the GM Striker is closely related to the Armored GM, since not only it does seem to also use reactive armor, but they also share the same backpack and calf thruster arrangement. Furthermore, if you check the images of the Armored GM on Mahq's profiles, you can quickly check that while the second color scheme is suppsoed to be the same one used by the units seen on Zeonic Front, the first color scheme, white with orange, plus gray reactive armor plates, resembles the one used by one of the earliest versions of the GM Striker found on the Spirits of Zeon Arcade game. Units using similiar color schemes include the Powered GM and the GM Ground Type, which points towards such colors belonging to prototype units.

Besides, the RGM-79FP model number seems to indicate that it is somehow related to the RGM-79F Land Combat Type GM, the same unit that served as the basis for the Desert GM mentioned above.

So, in order to figure out some more about the Armored GM, if anyone has any background info on RGM-79F, RGM-79FP and Desert GM, please share it with us.

Looking at the lineart for the RGM-79FP, I can see a lot of design similarities with the RGM-79E/C. On that note, the GRS seems to lack a number of these features. I always rationalized this to myself by saying that the RGM-79(GRS) was a direct development of the RGM-79F Desert GM, which the lineart makes very visually evident, whereas the RGM-79FP is a mobile suit that happens to use concepts from the RGM-79F series (which would include the Armored GM I guess, if the info you just provided is correct) on a frame developed from the RGM-79E GM Late Type, essentially making the Armored GM and GM Striker distant, lookalike cousins with the latter being collectively developed using concepts from the former and it's preceding brethren, rather than two closely related variations of the same MS series.

Basically what I'm saying is, by visual observation, it might make more sense to see the Armored GM as a unit belonging to the RGM-79F family tree, and the GM Striker as an offshoot of the RGM-79E/C that made use of concepts proven effective by the Armored GM. If the Armored GM indeed came out around the same time as the RGM-79D like the website claims, then it actually kind of helps make this theory more believable.

Whether or not this is actually applicable to the lore is not known to me, but that's just my two cents.

...Of course, the wiki claims that the RGM-79FP is developed directly from the RGM-79F, but I never really trust anything the wiki has to say.

_________________
"I'd show Loni the power my parents gave me if you know what I mean."

According to the GM Striker kit manual, this type was created based on ground combat data from the Gundam and Gundam Ground Type, and the example of the Gouf (the Dom isn't mentioned). It was based on the RGM-79C, which was then under development, and its wearable armor "was made by applying technology from the reactive armor used by the RGM-9F Desert GM on the African front, and the Chobham armor which was already being researched."

The Striker is specifically designed for close combat, so that doesn't necessarily make it a replacement for the Desert GM, but the kit manual indicates that there was definitely an influence.

Incidentally, as of the 2009 edition of the MS Encyclopedia, the Armored GM, the Desert GM, and the GM Ground Type from the M-MSV series all share the same "RGM-79F" designation. Perhaps they're all products of some kind of ground combat customization program.

-- Mark

it would seem that the GM F type project was to take the "Space" type GM frame and re-optimize it for specialized ground use like the RX-79[g] was.

_________________
http://raptr.com/jeffpiatt

After checking your comments and comapring some more these units, it seems that:

-The GM Striker directly uses the RGM-79[E]/RGM-79C as its base model, just as it has been pointed out already in this thread.

-The Land Combat GM's profile indicates that it was mainly deployed in european battle lines, which might be hinting its deployment during the Federation's advance towards Odessa, which in turn means that it must have been rolled at least before November, when the actual takes place, but it also means that it might have already been around as early as October 10th, when Revil's forces depart from Britain, marking the beginning of the european counteroffensive.Also, the Land Combat GM seems to use the standard GM as a base model, must likely the ground-use RGM-79A.

-The Cold Climate GM, Desert GM and Armored GM all have an extra set of vents on top of the torso, which seems to indcate some relationship beyond the 4 thrusters and their specific climate role.

-My main concern is that after further checking the Desert GM and Armored GM, they are basically identical except for the knees and cockpit, which makes me think that the later might simply be a retcon of the Desert GM or simply an improved version with hovering capabilities that was deployed a while later. Or it could be the other way around: the Desert GM could be an incomplete or early version of the Armored GM that was produced before the hovering system was ready, something like the infamous MS-07A which was produced before the internal weapon components for the MS-07B were ready.

So, what I can observe from all this is that:

-The RGM-79D, GM Striker and Desert GM were developed at a time when the data of the RMG-79[E] and RGM-79F (Land) was already available. All 3 inherit the backpack with 4 thrusters, both the GM Striker and the Desert GM use the reactive armor, and both the Desert GM and the RGM-79D units have an extra set of vents on top of their torso, most likely is related to the additional cooling and heating systems that each of them require for their specific environment.

-Now, while the GM Striker was probably designed to counter the Gouf as Mark pointed out, it seems that both the RGM-79D and Armored GM were both designed to counter the Dom, though in two different ways. The RGM-79D probably omitted the reactive armor in order to keep its weight down, taking the Light Armor GM route to be on a more even ground with the Dom. The Armored GM on the other hand intends to more directly mimic the Dom's strengths: heavy armor and hovering capabilities.

Taking into account their purpose (anti-Dom), same roll out time (according to the Zeonic Front's site) and their physical traits (vents and 4 thrusters), I find quite possible that the Cold Climate GM and Desert MG/Armored GM are sister projects.

In theory, the first appearance of the regular RGM-79 GM was in a behind-the-lines role during Operation Odessa. (As I've noted before, 08th MS Team and MS Igloo 2 indicate that the RGM-79(G) was used in the front lines during this operation, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that the newer RGM-79 units were being held back elsewhere.)

In this case, it seems dubious that the RGM-79F GM Ground Type from the M-MSV series would be deployed before the standard GM. But after Operation Odessa, all bets are off! In fact, the MS Boys manga shows this machine participating in a post-Odessa cleanup near Volgograd on November 11. Normal RGM-79 GMs appear for the first time in the same battle, so it seems like both these types were deployed in earnest immediately after Odessa.

As far as the relation between the Cold Climate, Desert, and Armored versions, I don't know if we can really draw too many conclusions from their visual similarities. The mecha designs for these types just seem pretty random to me. :-\

-- Mark

IIRC, the LWC manga does show something like that: Regular GMs defending the base where Revil and Cowen are having a discussion at the time of Operation Odessa, while a team made up of 2 RGM-79[G]s and a RX-79[G] are sent to the frontlines.



That's precisely what I meant to say: that the RGM-79F was completed/deployed at the same time or soon after the RGM-79A, therefore allowing data on its reactive armor being available to other GM variants which used a different base model (RGM-79C).



I agree that it's difficult to try to match these units which all seem to have been drawn by different people, and unless a future update of the GM book decides to include all 3 drawn by a single person, it won't be any easier to take that approach. That's why I also considered other facts such as their deployment date and their characteristics which, leaving aside their role for combat on specific climates, seem to focus on the threat of the recently deployed Dom MS.