Dealing with a New type

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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by ShadowCell » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:38 pm

moved this to Mecha and Technology, since that's the direction the discussion has taken. carry on.

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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by Geoxile » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:29 am

Amion wrote:From what I understand, attacking the pilot directly and incapacitating them with an electrical stunning weapon, like Yahzan did to Kamille in Zeta with his grapple weapon. In that instance, even if Kamille had funnels, he would be unable to use them because he can't think. Now granted, Amuro used his funnel weapons when put in the same situation, so I guess my suggestion is mute.

In other words, don't kill the pilot's girlfriend or be her girlfriend. Or be a newtype yourself or an ace pilot with a sturdy MS.
Well, funnels have displayed a sort of autonomy from what we've seen, especially in CCA. They react so diversely to single commands and what are presumably stray thoughts (like Amuro in that scene). Plus, I'm not sure Amuro can actually coordinate the Fin Funnels in such a manner to have them shoot down beams from the jagd doga. I mean, they did do that but seemingly on their own.

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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by domino » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:04 pm

I think the Nu gundam's psycoframe had something to do with that autonomous behaviour of the fin funnels. Eventhough Amuro was incapacitated, the psycoframe was able to interpret the signals from his distressed mind.

Since the cockpit has a panoramic screen, Amuro no doubt saw the beam coming at him and obviously would've been wondering how to avoid it eventhough he couldn't control his body due to the surging electricity. The fin funnels therefore reacted to stop the beams after first trying to free him from the grappling cables (which is no doubt what Amuro was also thinking about). If you think about it, it's like how the Unicorn Gundam's psycommu takes over the entire Mobile Suit (and pilot?) and reacts to whatever the pilot's basic impulse was at the time of activation.

This is very likely since Amuro seemed to be fully alert while being electrocuted since he was able to remember that it was because of the funnels activating and his inability to stop them from firing that Kara was crushed. Amuro seemed sure that his lack of control of stray psycommu signals translated to a lack of control of his funnels

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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by SlowTurtle » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:32 pm

Quick question thn, do the fangs seen in gundam 00 operate in the same manner?
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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:21 pm

It really does not seem to be the case, as we saw that even a regular human being (an Oldtype, if you will) can operate Fangs, so it seems to be something that is much more automated and less dependent on the pilot themselves having any particular special abilities; sure, most of the pilots in 00 who used Fangs were Innovades or Innovators - but neither Lyle nor Ali were, and they could operate the remote weapons on their machines just fine.
If I may draw a CE comparison, the funnels and bits of the Universal Century would be like the wired Gunbarrels of the EA's mobile armors or the early iterations of the DRAGOON System, which required pilots with preternaturally high spatial awareness (which translated into quasi-Newtype abilities in the case of Mwu and Rau), and the Fangs would be more like the wireless Gunbarrels of the Chaos or (reportedly) the DRAGOONs of the Strike Freedom, which can be operated by any pilot.

Or to put it in UC terms, the Fangs are more like wireless versions of incoms.
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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by Wingnut » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:40 pm

Dark Duel wrote:It really does not seem to be the case, as we saw that even a regular human being (an Oldtype, if you will) can operate Fangs, so it seems to be something that is much more automated and less dependent on the pilot themselves having any particular special abilities; sure, most of the pilots in 00 who used Fangs were Innovades or Innovators - but neither Lyle nor Ali were, and they could operate the remote weapons on their machines just fine.
Lyle had Haro(s) to control the shield/rifle bits and Ali had Veda support for his fangs in both the Drei and Arche.
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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by Arsarcana » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:51 pm

Which also applies to Michael in the Zwei; he might have had some minor QBW as well but it never really comes up. Also, Alejandro handled a set of the things. Given how poorly they performed, he probably didn't have any support.

Anyhow, it's somewhat implied by that big 00 remote weapon comparison chart that the ones meant for Setsuna, Descartes and Allelujah might operate more like Nu's fin funnels based on the implication of the final statistic that they're harder to control than other types (ie, specially tuned for QBW-users). Of course, Setsuna at least had a huge amount of Veda support so take the comparison with a grain of salt.

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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by DoubleZero » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:09 am

Arsarcana wrote:Which also applies to Michael in the Zwei; he might have had some minor QBW as well but it never really comes up. Also, Alejandro handled a set of the things. Given how poorly they performed, he probably didn't have any support.
Well, Soma stated that she felt ‘pressure’ when Zwei was first introduced, which implied that Michael used his QBW.
Doesn’t Alvatore have an AI to help Alejandro pilot?
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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by domino » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:28 am

I don't think we've ever seen an instance of fangs operating via stray QBW. At best, Haro would deploy the shield/rifle bits but usually only after being commanded to take full control of them.
Arsarcana wrote: Anyhow, it's somewhat implied by that big 00 remote weapon comparison chart that the ones meant for Setsuna, Descartes and Allelujah might operate more like Nu's fin funnels based on the implication of the final statistic that they're harder to control than other types (ie, specially tuned for QBW-users). Of course, Setsuna at least had a huge amount of Veda support so take the comparison with a grain of salt.
Allelujah had fangs? Is this in the Harute? Are there any images showing these fangs on a Gundam piloted by Allelujah?

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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by Maelstromm » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:10 am

domino wrote: Allelujah had fangs? Is this in the Harute? Are there any images showing these fangs on a Gundam piloted by Allelujah?
Not the best examples, but I think these two will do.
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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by SlowTurtle » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:19 pm

Wow thank you vry much for clearing that up.
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Re: Dealing with a New type

Post by nacho-wan » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:42 pm

I always have thought that the fangs in 00 where just a click and shoot kind of thing: select a target and the system does the rest. Probably the "rest" is handled through Veda or Haro in the Cherubim Gundam.

In the case of CE, it should work similar but through some type of AI to compensate.

If you think about the interface in most mobile suits, it is very unlikely that the pilot could issue specific commands to every bit.
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