Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Discussion » Mecha and Technology




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:19 am 
Offline
Mysterious Masked Dude

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 464
While I have been aware of proposals of consciousness being a quantum process before, this is the first time I heard about it being an explanation for near-death experiences, out of body experiences and reincarnation. An interesting introduction to that concept is in this article.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/soul-search/article_view?b_start:int=2&-C=

Especially interesting is this

Quote:
...When the blood supply and the oxygen stops, things go bad and the coherence stops, but quantum information at the Planck scale isn’t lost. It may dissipate into the universe but remain somehow entangled in some kind of functional unit, maybe indefinitely. If the patient is revived, the information gets picked back up again.”

...Even if that idea answers where consciousness comes from, it raises the question: Where did the Planck-scale processes that cause it come from Penrose’s answer: They came from the Big Bang. In this view, consciousness—all consciousness—was created at the same moment when the universe was created. If the soul exists, it, too, might be anchored to our moment of cosmic origin. This is what Italian astrophysicist Paola Zizzi terms the “Big Wow,” shorthand for her description of the connection between “the very early quantum computing universe and our mind.”

Penrose’s ideas hint at a physical mechanism for consciousness that persists after death. “If a patient isn’t revived,” Hameroff says, “it enters the universe at large, and maybe it gets picked back up again by someone someday, who knows?” At the Division of Perceptual Studies, there are file cabinets bulging with case studies of people who think they know. Most of them are children who remember past lives: who they were, where they lived, what they looked like, what work they did, all sorts of details of a life.


Which reminds me a lot of things like Newtype ghosts, Quantum Burst and of course the Ide from Ideon. Of course these are old concepts in general Sci-Fi especially stories from the "acid" years, but I like how there are some actual theoretical basis to "softer" SF devices like these. Hax powers might not be so unbelievable now that the entrie universe is supposed to be a fabric of quantum states that's entangled to conscious minds.


And I like how this neuro-surgeon's experience sounds like a Newtype/"Star Gate" mind trip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qUGV4n23dY


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:22 am 
Offline
Retconned MSV Ace

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:44 am
Posts: 1681
Location: Finland
I believe Frank Herbert's Dune was one of the front-runners of the "slightly acidy explorations of the mental" realm in sci-fi. There is, surprisingly, quite a lot of serious(-ish) study done on stuff like this, including telepathy. If nothing else, it is at the very least something that people have felt drawn to as an idea for a very long time.

_________________
-We will not be caught by surprise!
*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:19 pm 
Offline
HiMAT Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:38 am
Posts: 993
Location: United States
Speaking of which, I recall one of the 00 interview explaining one of the scenes in 00 movie

00 Movie Spoiler


Spoiler: show
Where Setsuna got physically attacked by the ELS and suffered brain damage as a result. The interview states that his brain created sort of a "quantum brain" to save his mind/memory/brain while he suffered the trauma; which he later recovered in the following months and had no lasting damage after he awoke from the coma.


While I am far from an expert on the subject, I did remember reading about that guy's name a magazine article while doing a light research assignment and I sort of thoughts of these phenomenons too as I did so.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:54 pm 
Offline
Cardboard Leo Ace

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 33
Well, if you try to analysis Newtype in scientific way, I should say that you have gone to a wrong direction. No mean to offence, but, please, don't try to do this becasue it really doesn't make any sense and to be frankly, that is the very conclusion that I have had after attmepting the same thing as the poster of this issue in many years back.
Now, I want to share my understanding about the newtype/innovators. In fact, to the world of gundam that created by Yoshiyuki Tomino, newtype or innovators need not to be explained by the scince. They both are just one simble. The very simble that people can communicate with each other without any barrier. And what Yoshiyuki Tomino try to tell the world with the gundam series is that all the conflicts that in human's world is caused by people can not understand each other. The new type or innovatrors is the "super man"(well, I am not talk about the American Super Hero, the definition of the super man here is more like in Nietzsche's philosophy) to lead the man kind to understand each other. However, I do not know that if Yoshiyuki Tomino denied this concept after I watched Gundam X. Because for my understanding, it looks like that in this animation Yoshiyuki Tomino totally denied Newtype and made it clear that even normal peple can also understand each other in this animation.
Is that clear enough for you guys to understand? I'm sorry but English is my second language and my English in fact is not good enough for me to make this level's comment. If there is anything that made you guys confused, please let me know, I will try to explain coz I come here not just becasue I am a gundam fan but also want to improve my English.
Btw, to the question of the newtype ghost:
Before, the most scintific explain nation conclusion is that those newtype who can feel the ghosts of other dead newtypes has multiple personality
but they do not aware that by themself. And the causation of this fact is because they had touch with those ghosts when they are still alive. The momery of the dead new-type came to those alive newtypes brain since the newtype has the ablity to communicate with each other in a unbelieveble effcective way.((In the novel that written by Yoshiyuki Tomino named sercet meetting (sorry about that, but I really do not know how to translate this into English, but its japanese name and Chinese name are both writen as 密会), it says that Amuro watched all the life of Larlar in 20 mins)). When the NT talk to the ghost, its infact one of his hidden mulit personalities is been activated.
Yes, I know that this explaination might not be peferct but, you know, it is the best I can do

_________________
Sorry for my fuxked up English...But I am just an international student in Au from China. If my words makes you guys confused, let me know.I will explain it.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:34 am 
Offline
Cardboard Leo Ace

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:25 pm
Posts: 35
That actually makes some sense. Deikun refers to people transcending the limitations imposed by their ENVIRONMENT, rather than necessarily their biology. Then again, he also mentions the awakening of the unused portion of the Human brain, so, it could be interpreted both ways. Either an evolution of mindset, or an evolution of mind.

In UC, though, the term Newtype has generally seemed to become a blanket term for anyone with unusual abilities.
If you'll suffer my paraphrasing the Blue Collar Comedy people:

If you instinctively know how to pilot Mobile Suits and other vehicles, you might be a Newtype.
If you possess enhanced reflexes that allow you to become an ace pilot during your first Mobile Suit battle, you might be a Newtype.
If you have precognition, you might be a Newtype.
If you have telepathy, you might be a Newtype.
If you can intimidate others with powerful mental projections, you might be a Newtype.
If you have an unmatched affinity for all things technical, and can solve complex problems in your head on the fly, you may be a Newtype.
If you are a pacifist at heart who can't see the point of the war you're fighting because you've realized both sides are probably wrong, you may be a Newtype.

So, yeah. At times, Newtypes are portrayed as individuals with enhanced physical abilities, such as super-reflexes, usually manifesting as superior piloting instincts.
Besides that, they can be portrayed as individuals with incredible mental abilities, such as telepathy and related abilities.
Finally, Newtype protagonists have almost always been portrayed as individuals who can "see beyond" conflict and understand other people. By the same token, some Newtype characters can be militant ZOINKS bent on conquering or destroying all Humanity.
It's a mixed bag. Rarely does a Newtype portray all of these abilities in equal measure, and thus, it is hard to say exactly what constitutes a Newtype. It may be biological, it may be psychological.

In Gundam X, Tomino states that the most common portrayal of Newtypes, ESP-wielding individuals, may not be some new evolution at all, but random mutations triggered by the environment Humanity had built. It was actually Humanity that had had the ability to become "intellectual Newtypes" all the time.

So, there's that.

_________________
"Captain! It's the Federation forces Mobile Suit! It has a head and limbs!"
_Oliver May, 603rd Test Team, upon first seeing the Federation's RGM-79 GM.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:50 am 
Offline
Traitor Villain
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
Posts: 5922
Location: California
what did Tomino have to do with Gundam X?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:49 pm 
Offline
Cardboard Leo Ace

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 33
Auto-Fox wrote:
That actually makes some sense. Deikun refers to people transcending the limitations imposed by their ENVIRONMENT, rather than necessarily their biology. Then again, he also mentions the awakening of the unused portion of the Human brain, so, it could be interpreted both ways. Either an evolution of mindset, or an evolution of mind.

In UC, though, the term Newtype has generally seemed to become a blanket term for anyone with unusual abilities.
If you'll suffer my paraphrasing the Blue Collar Comedy people:

If you instinctively know how to pilot Mobile Suits and other vehicles, you might be a Newtype.
If you possess enhanced reflexes that allow you to become an ace pilot during your first Mobile Suit battle, you might be a Newtype.
If you have precognition, you might be a Newtype.
If you have telepathy, you might be a Newtype.
If you can intimidate others with powerful mental projections, you might be a Newtype.
If you have an unmatched affinity for all things technical, and can solve complex problems in your head on the fly, you may be a Newtype.
If you are a pacifist at heart who can't see the point of the war you're fighting because you've realized both sides are probably wrong, you may be a Newtype.

So, yeah. At times, Newtypes are portrayed as individuals with enhanced physical abilities, such as super-reflexes, usually manifesting as superior piloting instincts.
Besides that, they can be portrayed as individuals with incredible mental abilities, such as telepathy and related abilities.
Finally, Newtype protagonists have almost always been portrayed as individuals who can "see beyond" conflict and understand other people. By the same token, some Newtype characters can be militant ZOINKS bent on conquering or destroying all Humanity.
It's a mixed bag. Rarely does a Newtype portray all of these abilities in equal measure, and thus, it is hard to say exactly what constitutes a Newtype. It may be biological, it may be psychological.

In Gundam X, Tomino states that the most common portrayal of Newtypes, ESP-wielding individuals, may not be some new evolution at all, but random mutations triggered by the environment Humanity had built. It was actually Humanity that had had the ability to become "intellectual Newtypes" all the time.

So, there's that.

Oh, please alllowed me to point out somethings.
1. About Deikun and his theory.
Based on the history of UC, I'd rather believe that Deikun's theory is a totally horse dung,sorry for my using rude word but I can not found any better words to decribe his theory it is. Let's back to his newtype theory. In his speech, as you mentioned,he indicate "people transcending the limitations imposed by their ENVIRONMENT, rather than necessarily their biology." but we should notice that he also said that "the god gives us a brain that we can hardly now compeletly use" What a big lying! How can he make that conclusion? After all, until Deikun's death,not even one newtype appeared on the world. The new-type that appeared later is not foreseeble. He does not have any fact and reasonble reasons to support his theory when he made it. Therefore, I'd rather prefer that he is just an politician whose target is to make the space conolies become independent to E.F. The new-type theory that made by Deikun is just a tool that created by him to win the support of space colonies' people. In fact, it is the same as Nazi use "Super man" philosophy to win the people's support. However, the difference is Deikun is a pacifist who do not want to use the violence way to achieve his goal. Unfortunately, that is mission impossible! The E.F. can not allowed that,after issued Bardot Policy,the economic sanction that made by E.F. goverment is imposed on Side 3.On another side, the people of Side 3 have all ready been stired up by his theory and they need a more powerful leader. Just because of that, Zabi family assased him and came to the power. Soon after that, "the tail of Hitler" Gihren Zabi start the one year war.
2.About New-type:
It looks like you have done well to identify the ability of New-Type and I'm very happy to see that you really have an insight about new-type,which is what many people in many Chinese Gundam forum do not have. But please allowed me to supple something:
the ablity of new-type to communicate with each other, see other target from other from hyper vison distance are all requiring Minofsky partical. Based on the explaination of Encyclopeadia Of Gunam, it says that that it is just like the sound traveled in the air, the new-type has the ablility to make Minofsky Partical waves and receive the waves of Minofsky Partical.Based on this explaintion,ff you want me to give an analogy about this, there ability is just like bat's. The only difference is bat need using the air to conduct ultrasonic waves but New-Types use Minofsky Particle to do the same job.
However, that explaination looks very unpersuadetive for me.If we assume that is true,new-type's ablility can only be used in Minofsky Particle enviroment, which is absoultely against the animation's describtion.
ShadowCell wrote:
what did Tomino have to do with Gundam X?

Tomino is a story writter of Gundam X.
Though it is a story that happens in parallel world to the world of UC. It looks more or less a reviewing and reevaluate the story of UC. To me, it is the simble of the totally denying of deikun's theory.

_________________
Sorry for my fuxked up English...But I am just an international student in Au from China. If my words makes you guys confused, let me know.I will explain it.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:00 am 
Offline
Traitor Villain
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 6826
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
fahentai wrote:
Tomino is a story writter of Gundam X.


No, he isn't. Gundam X was written by Hiroyuki Kawasaki and Tomino had nothing at all to do with Gundam X.

_________________
I must betray Stalindog!!!

RPG TRINARY: Mash
Die Anti-brutale Kraft: mcred23 (Call me 'red', not 'mcred')


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:45 am 
Offline
Traitor Villain
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
Posts: 5922
Location: California
Tomino was credited in tribute to him being the guy behind the first Gundam show. It doesn't mean he necessarily had anything to do with the show.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:56 am 
Offline
Cardboard Leo Ace

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 33
strange...There are a lot of material says that Tomino is one of the writter of Gundam X in Chinese. Even the Chinese wiki, it says "原作 富野由悠季、矢立肇" However, I checked Japanese and English wiki, there's no metion of that.
Any way, it is still not important. This one is still a good reevaluate of Deikun's new-type theory.

_________________
Sorry for my fuxked up English...But I am just an international student in Au from China. If my words makes you guys confused, let me know.I will explain it.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:52 am 
Offline
Mysterious Masked Dude

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:13 pm
Posts: 464
That's just the credit for the ORIGINAL creators. Those 2 names show up in every gundam show, even if they have nothing to do with them. Although 矢立肇 is the pen name for the sunrise staff in general.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:01 am 
Offline
Hot-blooded Gattai
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:44 pm
Posts: 8080
Location: Detroit, MI
flamingtroll wrote:
That's just the credit for the ORIGINAL creators. Those 2 names show up in every gundam show, even if they have nothing to do with them.
Quite right. It's like the "Based upon 'Star Trek' created by Gene Roddenbery" line that's on every Star Trek production even though the man has been dead for over two decades now.

_________________
The Gundam wiki

"Reality makes a crappy special effects crew." - Adam Savage


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:11 am 
Offline
Cardboard Leo Ace

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 33
flamingtroll wrote:
That's just the credit for the ORIGINAL creators. Those 2 names show up in every gundam show, even if they have nothing to do with them. Although 矢立肇 is the pen name for the sunrise staff in general.

Well, it looks like I misunderstand this for more than 10 years...Because in Chinese, 原作 can also mean the writer of the story. :cry: Anyway, for me, Gundam X is still a reevaluating of Gundam in Universe Centre.

_________________
Sorry for my fuxked up English...But I am just an international student in Au from China. If my words makes you guys confused, let me know.I will explain it.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:06 am 
Offline
Newtype Emo Guy

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:00 am
Posts: 343
For me, the words 原作, simply means original work and in this case, it is referring to MSG.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

Board index » Discussion » Mecha and Technology


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Maelstromm and 3 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: