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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:40 pm 
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The question over the meaning of a UC beam saber's color has been debated here on MT over the years with several ideas, but we have never reached a conclusive answer. The two main camps have said that the color depends on 1) temperature or 2) chemical composition.

I have always been a proponent of the "temperature" camp, and I think I am able to provide some proof as to why this should be the correct explanation versus "chemical composition" now that I have the education to do so. I am going to provide that reason based on quantum mechanics. *le gasp!*

---

The reason that I say the color of a beam saber is only temperature dependent is because I believe the blade plasma should behave as a blackbody, meaning it will emit radiation of certain wavelengths depending on its temperature.

The blade plasma should be a blackbody because it should be composed of only superheated Minovsky particles. The constituents are particles of equal mass, but opposite electric charge. Though because the particles are charged this way, they could form a bound state (like form a lattice, or form an atom-like particle of neutral charge that consists of + particle and a - particle) but I believe they are all high-energy free particles because the plasma is too hot for the particles to settle and form pairs or a lattice.

As any chemist...or quantum physicist...should know, non-blackbody objects show color because they are made of atoms which are bound states for electrons, and it is the electronic state of the atom that determines the color (wavelength) that the atom will emit. For instance, if you burn some copper atoms, it should emit bluish-green light. It does this because the copper atoms have valence electrons that are bound to the copper nucleus. When the copper burns, it is in a higher energy state, but as it cools down, the valence electrons fall to a lower energy state and emit light of a quantized wavelength, meaning the light will be of a specific color.

Minovsky particles in similar bound states should be able to do the same thing, but if the particles are unbound, they will not emit light in the same way, and actually will become invisible to this type of light. (The same way a plasma will become invisible if you strip all the electrons off of it.)

So, the blade color can't depend on what is in the plasma (the chemistry of the plasma): All blades should be made of super-heated Minovsky particles. There shouldn't be any other types of particles in the plasma (unless they decide to dope the plasma with some material for reasons unknown to us.) And the Minovsky particles are not in bound states, and the blade acts as a blackbody.

---

Now, the wavelength of radiation emitted by a blackbody (the color of light it emits) depends only on its temperature, and we can approximate the temperature using Wien's Law which looks conveniently simple.

(wavelength) = [2,897,768.5(51) nm·K] / (temperature)

This will give us the temperature in Kelvin. Beam sabers only come is certain common colors in animation, so I will use those as figures to approximate the wavelength of light emitted by the blades.

pink (red): 620nm gives 4673 K

yellow: 590nm gives 4911 K

green: 495nm gives 5854 K

blue: 450nm gives 6439 K

We get a basic trend that says the shorter wavelength gives the hotter blade. For reference, the melting point of titanium is 1941 K and the boiling point is 3650 K. This shows that the 'coldest' saber color (pink) will not only melt most MS armor, but will evaporate it, which is pretty consistent with what we see in animation.

Keep in mind, the wavelengths emitted come from the surface of the blade, so it is perfectly possible that the blade is even hotter in the center.

As was argued previously, it is very similar to the color of stars. This is a gross over-simplification, but red stars are cooler and blue stars are the hottest at their surfaces. (There are other factors such as size that play major factors in star temperature and energy.)

---

So...that's pretty much it. Thoughts?

**edit: That is not to say that all plasmas are blackbody--most aren't! Many plasmas will be made up of partially ionized particles that still have bound states. I'm just arguing that Minovsky plasmas should be blackbody without bound states.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Don't forget red, orange and ELS purple!

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:24 pm 
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And what if the minovsky particles are technically invisible but there are chemical tracers?
EDIT: Oops, you addressed that.

Here's a thought though. What if the minovksy particles are in fact in a bound state because of their lattice strength (remember, these things have a +2/-2 electric charge).


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:53 am 
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OMG Doomsday Laser
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Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Don't forget red, orange and ELS purple!

It's hinted that this theory can only cover UC and its Minovsky particles. Still, I already provided Wien's Law, and the calculation is just a simple division to get T. Why don't you take this table and give us those other temperatures, Arbiter? :P
latenlazy wrote:
Here's a thought though. What if the minovksy particles are in fact in a bound state because of their lattice strength (remember, these things have a +2/-2 electric charge).

Well, then all I can really say is that if there are still bound states in the plasma, then this "super-heated" plasma isn't as hot as it could be. =p With bound states, the plasma should start giving off emission lines, but of course none of us have a way of testing imaginary particles. I guess you could calculate the emission lines for a pair of bound Minovsky particles, but I think you would need the mass to do that. I don't think that number has ever been published.

And I really don't think the plasma should be cool enough to form a lattice. I think it technically wouldn't be plasma at that point, but it does have interesting implications on what effects the lattice may have on objects interacting with the blade.

Also, I've heard here and there that Minovsky particles are +/-2 charged, but I never seem to remember it. Could you provide a source on that so we can all have a read?

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:58 am 
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Seraphic wrote:
Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Don't forget red, orange and ELS purple!

It's hinted that this theory can only cover UC and its Minovsky particles. Still, I already provided Wien's Law, and the calculation is just a simple division to get T. Why don't you take this table and give us those other temperatures, Arbiter? :P
latenlazy wrote:
Here's a thought though. What if the minovksy particles are in fact in a bound state because of their lattice strength (remember, these things have a +2/-2 electric charge).

Well, then all I can really say is that if there are still bound states in the plasma, then this "super-heated" plasma isn't as hot as it could be. =p With bound states, the plasma should start giving off emission lines, but of course none of us have a way of testing imaginary particles. I guess you could calculate the emission lines for a pair of bound Minovsky particles, but I think you would need the mass to do that. I don't think that number has ever been published.

And I really don't think the plasma should be cool enough to form a lattice. I think it technically wouldn't be plasma at that point, but it does have interesting implications on what effects the lattice may have on objects interacting with the blade.

Also, I've heard here and there that Minovsky particles are +/-2 charged, but I never seem to remember it. Could you provide a source on that so we can all have a read?

Well, another possibility I considered is that the colour is actually given off by the lattice that contains the plasma, so while the plasma inside is hot and invisible, the minovsky particles that generate the lattice are still bound and therefore give off emissions.

I'll try to dig around for the source on the minovsky particle's charge. This goes all the way back but I think it was from the original Gundam Project (yeah, I can't believe how much time has passed either). You could also ask Mark and see if he can provide you a source.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:04 am 
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Oh, that could very well be, but then what does the color mean?? :mrgreen:

I've also quietly wondered to myself if the Minovsky particles in an i-field sheath are chaotic or are arranged in a lattice. A sheath is supposed to be a flattened lattice, right? And I suppose a lattice formation would allow them to nicely line up with the electric field lines, which I'm sure would make them happy little particles.

I'm looking forward to seeing that. Thanks in advance. =)

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:23 am 
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Seraphic wrote:
Oh, that could very well be, but then what does the color mean?? :mrgreen:

I've also quietly wondered to myself if the Minovsky particles in an i-field sheath are chaotic or are arranged in a lattice. A sheath is supposed to be a flattened lattice, right? And I suppose a lattice formation would allow them to nicely line up with the electric field lines, which I'm sure would make them happy little particles.

I'm looking forward to seeing that. Thanks in advance. =)

Different lattice strengths potentially? It's possible that without further energy input, all the minovksy particles within the lattice would naturally align and become bound. If that's the case there's probably something like an electric current or even direct heat being fed into core of the lattice that prevents this from happening. This would imply that there are essentially two components to the beam saber. The first would be a ring which forms the lattice, and the second would be the primary plasma emitter.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Seraphic wrote:
Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Don't forget red, orange and ELS purple!

It's hinted that this theory can only cover UC and its Minovsky particles. Still, I already provided Wien's Law, and the calculation is just a simple division to get T. Why don't you take this table and give us those other temperatures, Arbiter? :P


Because I suck at math, that's why. :D

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:34 pm 
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So if that's the case wouldn't the weakest beam sabers be the ones with the lowest temperature, in this case the pink ones? And the strength of the beam saber would then be related to the color? As I'd say it's fair to assume that more heat means more cutting power. So the blue beam saber would be the one that has the most power? Now if I'm wrong about these assumptions feel free to correct me.

It's also a fair assumption to say that the power of the beam sabers would then increase from the OYW until Victory Gundam. The MW ratings of the ones from First Gundam until CCA seem to indicate this and it's fair to assume the trend would continue. So if that is indeed the case why has there not been a shift from pink to blue beam sabers? Why is the Victory 2 Gundam still using the same old pink beam saber? Also in Zeta Gundam episode 26 we see Yazan's Gaplant using the old Gelgoog's blue twin beam sword only for the Zeta's to slice straight through that.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Mark064 wrote:
So if that's the case wouldn't the weakest beam sabers be the ones with the lowest temperature, in this case the pink ones? And the strength of the beam saber would then be related to the color? As I'd say it's fair to assume that more heat means more cutting power. So the blue beam saber would be the one that has the most power? Now if I'm wrong about these assumptions feel free to correct me.

It's also a fair assumption to say that the power of the beam sabers would then increase from the OYW until Victory Gundam. The MW ratings of the ones from First Gundam until CCA seem to indicate this and it's fair to assume the trend would continue. So if that is indeed the case why has there not been a shift from pink to blue beam sabers? Why is the Victory 2 Gundam still using the same old pink beam saber? Also in Zeta Gundam episode 26 we see Yazan's Gaplant using the old Gelgoog's blue twin beam sword only for the Zeta's to slice straight through that.

Not necessarily. Assuming that the minovsky particles are black body surface temperature does not necessarily imply core temperature.


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:17 am 
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Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
Because I suck at math, that's why. :D

Don't be silly, Arbiter. I know you can divide. And don't say you don't have a calculator, 'cause you're typing from a machine that has calculator functions. =D

Mark064 wrote:
So if that's the case wouldn't the weakest beam sabers be the ones with the lowest temperature, in this case the pink ones? And the strength of the beam saber would then be related to the color? As I'd say it's fair to assume that more heat means more cutting power. So the blue beam saber would be the one that has the most power?

Particle temperature is only one aspect that goes into a beam blade's cutting power. It is a nice indicator, but the other factors cannot be ignored. While particle temperature is important, I'd say the more important factor is how many particles there are. You'll use the typical thermodynamics equations to see why that's important.

A good example is some plasmas you can find inside real-world reactors. The plasma is at millions of degrees, but because there are so few particles, it is not very "hot" and will not do very much damage if something were to come into contact with it. Like how steam is hot, but how much of a burn will you get if you only get splashed by a handful of hot water molecules?
Mark064 wrote:
It's also a fair assumption to say that the power of the beam sabers would then increase from the OYW until Victory Gundam. The MW ratings of the ones from First Gundam until CCA seem to indicate this and it's fair to assume the trend would continue. So if that is indeed the case why has there not been a shift from pink to blue beam sabers? Why is the Victory 2 Gundam still using the same old pink beam saber? Also in Zeta Gundam episode 26 we see Yazan's Gaplant using the old Gelgoog's blue twin beam sword only for the Zeta's to slice straight through that.

This is a little more simple. The MW rating can give you an idea of how strong the saber is, but not all of that power is being used to heat the plasma. Some, and probably most, of the power is being used to create the i-field sheathe for the plasma, and it's the strength of the sheathe that determines the sturdiness or integrity of the blade.

That defunct Gelgoog sword couldn't block because it's i-field sheathe did not hold, not because it wasn't hot enough. The MW rating can also be misleading because the beam saber may need to heat more particles, so it would not be able to reach as high of a temperature. Like say you have 10 watts of power to either heat a cup of water or a gallon of water. Obviously the cup will be hotter because the power source devotes more energy into a smaller mass of particles.

We may also see no trend in beam saber color because as already stated, a pink-hued saber is already hot enough to slice through any mobile suit. With no anti-saber improvements for armor, there was no real need to improve saber performance to any great degree, at least temperature-wise. The improvements likely went toward using denser plasmas or stronger i-field sheathes. (And I also didn't want to go into this territory, but saber color is just arbitrary choice by the animators.)

This is cheating a bit, but the only series where I see a color-coded trend is GW, where Leos and Tallgeese use pink sabers, Gundams use green blades, and Mercurius uses a yellow/gold blade. I can't really remember, but I think VirgoII's have pink sabers, too.
latenlazy wrote:
Seraphic wrote:
Oh, that could very well be, but then what does the color mean?? :mrgreen:

I've also quietly wondered to myself if the Minovsky particles in an i-field sheath are chaotic or are arranged in a lattice. A sheath is supposed to be a flattened lattice, right? And I suppose a lattice formation would allow them to nicely line up with the electric field lines, which I'm sure would make them happy little particles.

I'm looking forward to seeing that. Thanks in advance. =)

Different lattice strengths potentially? It's possible that without further energy input, all the minovksy particles within the lattice would naturally align and become bound. If that's the case there's probably something like an electric current or even direct heat being fed into core of the lattice that prevents this from happening. This would imply that there are essentially two components to the beam saber. The first would be a ring which forms the lattice, and the second would be the primary plasma emitter.

I can see where you're coming from, but i-fields and lattices are normally invisible, right?? At least i-field barriers and Minovsky craft tell us that. The only time we've seen Minovsky particles are when they are super-heated in beam sabers and beam shields, and I guess also in V2's WoL.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:55 am 
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I was under the impression that the electromagnetic field controlling the sabers distribution of particles would have a great deal to do with its appearance.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Ocho wrote:
I was under the impression that the electromagnetic field controlling the sabers distribution of particles would have a great deal to do with its appearance.

Okay. Could you explain to us how or why the EM field affects the appearance (outside of the shape)?

The confinement field for the reactor at my university is not visible when it is on. Given, it's only magnetic and doesn't use electric fields.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:06 am 
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Seraphic wrote:
Okay. Could you explain to us how or why the EM field affects the appearance (outside of the shape)?

The confinement field for the reactor at my university is not visible when it is on. Given, it's only magnetic and doesn't use electric fields.


I dunno... like the size would affect the compression of the particles and the particles wavelengths would visibly increase or decrease. Aren't magnetic fields and electric fields the same but one is stronger than the other???

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