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 Post subject: The Jurick and its Peers
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:57 pm 
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The most recent addition to the MSV-R series, the rather ridiculous MSM-06 Jurick, has gotten me thinking about the overall timeline of Zeon's amphibious mobile suit development. The Jurick profile is fairly specific about its development and rollout dates:

Quote:
The favorable performance of the MSM-03 Gogg and MSM-07 Z'Gok in the battlefield exceeded the expectations of the Principality of Zeon's military leaders. As a result, several amphibious mobile suits whose development was then in progress had their prototype plans frozen or suspended, as top priority was given to the mass production of the existing MSM series.

The MSM-06 Jurick was one of these temporarily suspended machines. Prototype construction was approved five months after the completion of the basic design, and the first and second units rolled out three months after that, in early November of U.C. 0079. Due to its delayed development, it was still in the middle of functional testing when the war ended, and it never entered mass production. But since it had been given a model number, it appears that a decision was imminent to formally adopt it.


Working backwards from the rollout date, this gives us:

U.C. 0079.03: Principality of Zeon completes basic design of MSM-06 Jurick.
U.C. 0079.08: Principality of Zeon approves construction of prototype MSM-06 Jurick.
U.C. 0079.11 (EARLY): Rollout of prototype MSM-06 Jurick.


MSM-03 Gogg: We're told that the Jurick was one of several machines whose "prototype plan" was suspended due to the favorable results obtained from the Gogg and Z'Gok. Based on what we've been told about the activities of the Gogg, this would presumably account for the three-month gap between the approval of prototype construction, and the actual rollout. To repeat the Gogg timeline proposed in this earlier thread:

U.C. 0079.02: Principality of Zeon begins full-scale development of MSM series.
U.C. 0079.05 (LATE): Principality of Zeon begins deployment of pre-production MSM-03.
U.C. 0079.07 (EARLY): Principality of Zeon begins mass production and deployment of MSM-03 Gogg.

Elsewhere on the timeline, we're told that Zeon organizes its first submarine fleet in June of U.C. 0079, and completes their formation the following month. The Battle of Midway, which begins on August 11, is supposedly the first time Zeon's amphibious mobile suits are deployed in full-scale battle. Perhaps this was one example of the "favorable performance" that led to the postponement of the Jurick, but what about the Z'Gok?


MSM-07 Z'Gok: In the catalog from Sunrise's Mobile Suit Museum, there's a photo showing a bunch of Z'Goks waiting to be shipped out from the California Base. The caption reads as follows:

Quote:
Z'Gok waiting to be shipped out prior to attack on Jaburo
An MSM-07 Z'Gok, intended for use in an assault on the Federation Forces headquarters at Jaburo, waiting to be shipped out from the factory of the California Base in North America. This picture was taken at the base's 9th Armory, and although the date is uncertain, given the time of the machine's development it's believed to be around August of U.C. 0079. This was probably a snapshot to record the first shipment of this brand-new MS. The production of amphibious MS was a top priority for the factories of this base, which was located very close to Jaburo. The Z'Gok was regarded as the perfect incarnation of the amphibious MS, and it was expected to be an "ace in the hole" for the Jaburo attack. It's reported that the veteran units to which this machine was first assigned received a great morale boost.


So this puts the first shipment of the Z'Gok at August of U.C. 0079. Presumably these machines were used in the initial attack on Jaburo which took place in September, and that may well represent the combat debut of the Z'Gok. I think all of this meshes quite well with the timeline suggested in the Jurick profile.

Incidentally, the Zeon Military File says that MIP began developing amphibious mobile suits one month after Zimmad started work on the Gogg. So this would give us the following:

U.C. 0079.03: MIP begins development of MSM-07 Z'Gok.
U.C. 0079.08: First shipment of MSM-07 Z'Gok from California Base.
U.C. 0079.09: MSM-07 Z'Gok participates in first attack on Jaburo.


MSM-04 Acguy: The Acguy was supposedly completed before the Z'Gok. According to the Zeon Military File, "combat deployment began on an experimental basis in September, one month after the plan was drafted." That last claim sounds a bit fishy, but the idea that it was experimentally deployed in September puts it neck and neck with the Z'Gok. Perhaps both types were used in the initial assault on Jaburo? In any case, it seems like we can peg the combat introduction of the Acguy and Z'Gok at September of U.C. 0079.


All Others: The notion that Zeon belatedly resumed producing prototypes of the other MSM series machines in November works pretty well with the appearance of the MSM-10 Zock, not to mention the "Agg series" which weren't quite ready in time for the second Jaburo assault. And if the Acguy and Z'Gok participated in the previous attack in September, it makes sense that they'd be the basis for the machines created for the next attempt.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:12 pm 
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The Jurick is the missing SEED MSV of ZAFT amphibious units from that old chart 8) . To this day they haven't completed that chart.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:01 pm 
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balofo wrote:
The Jurick is the missing SEED MSV of ZAFT amphibious units from that old chart 8) . To this day they haven't completed that chart.

it actually looks too zeonic for seed. it actually looks like it was intended to be an zaku typs ms that could cruse in ma mode to an target beach and transform in to ms mode to attack on land. my guess is that zeon restarted it's development after seeing how well the UMP MSN units did in order to have one built by zeonic that maybe be combatable with zaku parts like the Acguy line.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:38 am 
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Now Mark, how many times do we have to remind you? Japan loves using German naming schemes for their suits/ships and what not. Change your name to Jülich (named after the city) and make everyone happy :lol:

:roll: Sarcam should be obvious by this posting :P


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:17 am 
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Izubuchi loves using German names. I don't think Okawara or Kawaguchi have a particular track record of doing that, and it wouldn't fit the general MSV and MSV-R trend of silly nonsense names. :-)

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:39 am 
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Haha, it's not just Izubuchi... They've cropped up in other random series here and there.

The reason why I jest with it is because the spellings come from all sorts of things. We have the MA-05R Big Rukh (it fits the fact that it's a mobile armor, so...). Then there's the Sloep...

Maybe we'll have a digest with English spellings at some point. Though I'm surprised we don't given the English in everything else.


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:58 pm 
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If it were Jülich, wouldn't the kana be Yuurikku? Correct me if I'm wrong.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Homeless wrote:
If it were Jülich, wouldn't the kana be Yuurikku? Correct me if I'm wrong.


It would actually be ユーリヒ. I was merely teasing simply because ジュリック is Julrich (as in Bobby Julrich of Tour de France fame). However, if you place the umlaut over it you have a city in Germany.


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Ah, I see. Thanks.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Deacon Blues wrote:
Haha, it's not just Izubuchi... They've cropped up in other random series here and there.

The reason why I jest with it is because the spellings come from all sorts of things. We have the MA-05R Big Rukh (it fits the fact that it's a mobile armor, so...). Then there's the Sloep...

"Sloep" is actually Dutch - it's also the basis for the English word "sloop", so we can't say whether the GM Sloop is named in Dutch or English. (And in any case, it's a Federation machine.) As for the mobile armor, ルフ could be anything at all.

As far as the MSV-R series is concerned, so far they're either named with English terms (like "Night Seeker") or the classic nonsense kana. No reason to think they'd suddenly change gears with the MS-06 and start name-checking German towns...

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Great information Mark, but I have some doubts:

toysdream wrote:
U.C. 0079.02: Principality of Zeon begins full-scale development of MSM series.


Shouldn't the formal development of the actual MSM series start until after the MS-06M was proved to be a flawed design, after the three weeks it was tested showed several flaws? If the MS-06M went down during the Zeon's Second Drop Operation and testing began as soon as California Base fell on March 13th, the testing of the MS-06M would have ended on early April at the earliest, at which time the plans for the MS-06M series were dropped in favor of the MSM series.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I had the idea that Zeon first tried to see if machines based on the Zaku, such as the MS-06M-1 and MS-06M-2, could be used. This meant that not only the prototypes could be finished earlier, probably even using existing Zaku units as base models, but might have also allowed sharing components between them and maybe even use the same production lines.

But the flaws found in the MS-06M led Zeon to cancel that project and follow a different route, which was using specialized MS which had little in common with Zaku, which became the MSM series, which although would eventually prove to be quite effective, took a longer time to develop.

toysdream wrote:
All Others: The notion that Zeon belatedly resumed producing prototypes of the other MSM series machines in November works pretty well with the appearance of the MSM-10 Zock, not to mention the "Agg series" which weren't quite ready in time for the second Jaburo assault. And if the Acguy and Z'Gok participated in the previous attack in September, it makes sense that they'd be the basis for the machines created for the next attempt.

-- Mark


The Grabro probably also fits as another machine whose development resumed in November. Then there's the MSM-07S, which might also be in the same situation, but unlike other units, it did was mass produced at least to some extent. On the other hand, do we have any information regarding when the MSM-03C and MSM-07E were first deployed? Since we know that Z'gok series deployment went something like this:

MSM-07->MSM-07S->MSM-07E

If the standard Z'gok was first deployed in August, but until the Attack on Jaburo on Novemebr 30th, other than Char's unit it seems that the other units are all MSM-07. If California Base falls around December 5th, there's hardly anytime for the MSM-07S to be mass produced and the MSM-07E to be developed.

The only way out of that tight schedule would be to consider that by the Battle of Jaburo, the MSM-07S has already replaced the MSM-07 as the new mass produced version of the Z'gok. To fit this with what we see in the series, we could consider that while the Mad Angler Corps original Z'gok complement included only older MSM-07 units, the units that were brought from California Base along with the Zock are all new MSM-07S, which could mean that the 3 Z'goks which dropped from a Gaw might have all been MSM-07S and not only Char's unit. Of course the other two units didn't survive the drop from the Gaw and that's why we couldn't confirm their capabilities anyway.


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:19 am 
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Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Shouldn't the formal development of the actual MSM series start until after the MS-06M was proved to be a flawed design, after the three weeks it was tested showed several flaws?

I actually discussed this halfway through the first page of the Rollout Timeline thread. My theory is that the flaws of the MS-06M actually became apparent before it was sent to Earth - perhaps through testing at Side 3 resort colonies - and by the time of the Earth invasion, it had already been reclassified as the MSM-01 and relegated to data-gathering duties. This is actually what it says in Entertainment Bible 1, so there's some support in the publications too.

Quote:
On the other hand, do we have any information regarding when the MSM-03C and MSM-07E were first deployed? Since we know that Z'gok series deployment went something like this:

MSM-07->MSM-07S->MSM-07E

If the standard Z'gok was first deployed in August, but until the Attack on Jaburo on Novemebr 30th, other than Char's unit it seems that the other units are all MSM-07. If California Base falls around December 5th, there's hardly anytime for the MSM-07S to be mass produced and the MSM-07E to be developed.

Judging from the MSV Collection File, it seems like the S type was deployed in November, so the Z'Gok E must have come close on its heels. The Cyclops Team arrived on Earth on December 6, so the Z'Gok E and Hy-Gogg were presumably in service by that point.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Deacon Blues wrote:
Haha, it's not just Izubuchi... They've cropped up in other random series here and there.

The reason why I jest with it is because the spellings come from all sorts of things. We have the MA-05R Big Rukh (it fits the fact that it's a mobile armor, so...). Then there's the Sloep...


Is the Big Rukh the 0080 Izubuchi version of the Bigro? Is it the same unit in the picture of the Izubuchi style Zakurello in MS era book I think? (Very awesome version). Does the Izubuchi Zakurello have a special name for this variation?


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:33 pm 
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The Big Ruf doesn't have anything to do with Izubuchi's Bigro (either the MS Era version, or the one attached to the Big Rang in MS Igloo). It's basically a standard Bigro with little Zakrello-esque boosters on top, and a pylon on the underside for attaching a huge missile.

If anything, it kind of resembles the Ze'Gok from MS Igloo, and the MSV-R profile says that like the Ze'Gok its pylon was designed to carry different kinds of optional weapons aside from one big missile. This is actually one of the very few examples of the MSV-R series acknowledging any of the One Year war spinoffs and side stories, aside from 08th MS Team.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:39 pm 
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In another thread regarding the Z'gok S, we were talking about the MS-06M-1 and MS-06M-2. While it seemed that the MS-06M-1 served as the base model for the RMS-192M, I considered that the MS-06M-2 probably referred to the MS-06M/MSM-01. However, upon further checking the description Mark gave on that thread, I think that might not be the case. First here's the description of the MS-06M-2 from the other thread:

toysdream wrote:
As for the MS-06M Zaku Marine Type - which the Zaku Mariner kit manual insists on calling "Zaku Mariner" - the kit manual describes two prototype versions, the M-1 and M-2. The M-1 was developed first, and had better underwater cruising speed but lower pressure resistance. The M-2 had waterproof seals on its joints, and a large monitor shield was added to protect its mono-eye. After the war, both types were deployed by the Federation Forces, with the M-1 type stationed at the Dakar base and the M-2 type stationed at New Guinea. The M-1 type, of course, is the "Zaku Mariner" seen in Gundam ZZ; by this explanation, it's based on the first prototype version of the MS-06M.

-- Mark


Afterwards I found a machine that fits the description given for the MS-06M-2, the RMS-188MD Zaku Diver:

As seen on the image on the profile it has a visor protecting its mono-eye, its joints seemed to have some additional protection and its role as deep sea salvage MS implies that it has a high pressure resistance. Along with the RMS-192M, this unit's model number also indicates that they were both produced at Jaburo.

Most likely, after the capture of Zeon's MS-06M/MSM-01, the Federation modified the design and came up with two different proposals based on it which had a different purposes each: underwater combat and deep sea salvage.

Back to the MSM-01, I have a minor doubt regarding the total amount of units produced. I went to check the defunct Library of Londenion Site which had some info on Zeon Naval Fleets, namely some info about some particular fleets such as which carried MS-06M/MSM-01 units.

If we added all units mentioned, we would have a total of 12 MS-06M/MSM-01 units:
-Green Siren Corps: One confirmed.
-Manta Ray Corps: One confirmed.
-Naga III Corps: One confirmed.
-Red Dolphin Corps: Two confirmed. After the Battle of Odessa, they participated in the Mediterranean Amphibous Assault, where the MS-06M were believed to be deployed.
-Sea Serpent Corps: They were given five units for test purposes and were given two more units near the end of the OYW.

The common theory for the production run for the MSM-01 Zaku Marine Type is 7 units. We could fit these if we consdier that the Sea Serpent Corps' first five units were distributed among the other corps, but it does seems odd that afterwards they receive another two units.

Basically, what I want to know if there's any source that might propose a different total production run for the Zaku Marine Type, namely because the distribution of these units among different fleets made me consider that maybe Zeon eventually used them for labor after their testing was done, just like the Zaku I after it was reitred from frontline duty. besides, they were among Zeon's few amphibious MS which actually had hands rather than claws, so it might not be too far'fetched to think that Zeon might have wanted some extra units to provide logistical support to their submarine fleets.

Finally, I also have some questions regarding the submarine fleets themselves, but I will leave those for another time.


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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Afterwards I found a machine that fits the description given for the MS-06M-2, the RMS-188MD Zaku Diver:

As seen on the image on the profile it has a visor protecting its mono-eye, its joints seemed to have some additional protection and its role as deep sea salvage MS implies that it has a high pressure resistance. Along with the RMS-192M, this unit's model number also indicates that they were both produced at Jaburo.


I'm pretty sure that the "M-2" described in the Zaku Mariner kit manual was supposed to refer to the classic Zaku Marine Type. The Zaku Diver design hadn't been published at that point, and the large glass "window" on the head of the Marine Type is generally referred to as a "monitor shield". Even the reference to the Federation Forces stationing it at New Guinea seems like a reference to the "Marine Hizack" seen in Zeta Gundam.

As for the MS-06M, there's a very simple answer here. During its initial testing, all seven units (the original five prototypes, and two more additional ones that were produced later) were assigned to the Sea Serpent fleet. After the end of testing, these seven units were retired, but later on in the war they were redeployed among a bunch of submarine fleets and sent into combat. The writeup from the old MSV kit manual explains this in extensive detail:

Quote:
MS-06M
In Zeon's Earth invasion operation, one of the propositions applied to the mobile suit was underwater combat. Since the Federation stronghold of Jaburo was located in South America's Amazon river basin, amphibious mobile suits were developed to take on this role, and as with other possibilities development proceeded with the MS-06 as a base. The Zaku itself had excellent airtight qualities, but the waterproofing process do not progress as expected, and many problems remained with the Zaku's underwater functionality.

Regardless, the expectations for this MS-06 type were not particularly high, and the idea of addressing the role with an underwater Zaku was quickly rejected. But at this point, the underwater Zaku plan was resuscitated in the name of functional testing of the hydrojet engine, and data collection for underwater weapons. Of course, the development of newly designed amphibious mobile suits had begun in the meantime, and the Zaku type was given the name MS-06M.

The hydrojet engine was provisionally completed and installed in five prototype machines, which were assigned to the Sea Serpent submarine fleet in the North Atlantic as a test corps. The results were not as good as would be expected from the Zaku, but the hydrojet engine testing proceeded well, and a variety of estimated data was calculated from the Zaku. A quadruple 240mm rocket gun was repeatedly tested as an underwater weapon, but since the amphibious mobile suits were adopting fixed weapons, it was not realized in that form.

The MS-06M is also recognized as having another name. When it was decided to use MSM numbers for the amphibious mobile suits, this M type was given the name MSM-01. Just after the end of testing, with the mass production of the MSM-02 and then the MSM-03, all seven units of the MS-06M were retired. They spent some time resting in a warehouse, but they entered actual combat during the Mediterranean landing operation.

The MS-06M was inferior in terms of performance, but landing operations required as many mobile suits as possible, and so it was readied for combat with additional fixed weapons. At this point, it participated in combat with quadruple 180mm rocket launchers on its chest. Five of the seven units underwent this upgrade, and had this pod attached to the right side or both sides of their chest. In the end, they were unable to produce significant results, and it is said that all but two or three units were destroyed. When these entered combat at the end of the war, they were painted in dark green colors, which is believed to have been a temporary camouflage.


I note that this account also supports my notion that the MS-06M project had already been canceled by the time it was sent to Earth, and that the tests performed with the Sea Serpent fleet were intended solely to gather data for the "true" MSM series whose development was already in progress. (The kit manual literally says exactly that.)

If you have any more thoughts on the submarine fleets, bring them on! This thread isn't doing much else right now. :-)

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:57 pm 
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it seems that the msm-01 was unable to function as an humanoid mini-sub like zeon wanted but when the federation navel forces got a hold of them they worked better for the EFN shore line attack and defense the aqua GM was built for. it worked well enough that the parts were applied to RMS-106 frames and updated twice. oddly none of the MIP or zimmad units get adopted by the feds even the MSM-04 gets dropped and it used zaku parts.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:39 am 
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toysdream wrote:
If you have any more thoughts on the submarine fleets, bring them on! This thread isn't doing much else right now. :-)

-- Mark


One of my main questions is regarding the organziation of their Naval Attack Force. For starters, let me bring up In [url]this previous thread[/url] as reference, where we had already discussed some aspects such as the theories on the size of their fleet and that beside the submarine fleets, the NAF also had surface fleets made of an unknown type of vessel.

Regarding the organization of the submarine fleets, while we are told that there are only 6 fleets, there also seems to be several squadrons. For example Flanagan Boone's squad made up of 2 Jukon class submarines is identified as the 26th submarine squad in Mark's timeline. It should be noted that in the episode where the Mad Angler is first introduced, it is first seen escorted by 2 Jukons. After a while, Char leaves the Mad Angler in a Sealance and lands in one of Boone's Jukons. For some odd reasons, after one of Boone's submarines is sunk and the action centers around the Mad Angler, it is seen escorted by only one Jukon, which I think might lead to the mistaken idea that the Mad Angler Corps and the 26th submarine fleets were one and the same and only had 2 Jukons in total, which is undertandable since after that point the other 2 Jukons are nowhere to be seen.

Anyway, my point is that we have an example (though probably a rare one since the Mad Angler itself seems to be rare unit) of the size of a submarine fleet (3 combat submarines), as well of that of a submarine squad (2 combat submarines), and we can confirm that besides six submarine fleets, Zeon has at least 26 submarine squads (I will admit that it is also possible that the Boone's squad is part of the Mad Angler Fleet, and in such case their total initial fleet would be 5 submarines), not to mention submarines that act individually such as the one that transported the Cyclops Corps. IIRC, one of these 2 groups, most likely the Mad Anglet fleet, also includes at least one Prober recon submarine.

I also want to figure out the identity of the fleet seen in 08th team which Rear Admiral Yuri and some of his troops use to escape from Odessa. I'm guessing that this is the second fleet that participated Mediterranean Amphibious Assault, the first being the Red Dolphin fleet which was destroyed during said operation. What I want to find out out is if this is the same Mad Angler later assigned to Char, which could have several implications such as the possibility that the Mad Angler fleet already been reduced in numbers before first appearing at Belfast. On the other hand, these events take place at around the same time that the Federation begins attacking the Suez canal, which could have compromised the transit through that area, thus forcing this fleet to take the long way around Africa. I suppose that this would make less likely that the fleet completed the journey From Odessa to Ghinias Base and then to Belfast in the given time.

Finally, is there any information about the MS capacity of UC submarines, or at least some aproximations on these?

For example, the Juneau class from Gundam UC ep 4 seemed to carry at least 3 or 4 MS: two Aqua GMs had already been deployed and engaged the Zee Zulus, and in the mean time the submarine's captain ordered the deployment of the spare units, out of which we see at least one more Aqua GM.

With Zeon submarines it might be more difficult to proeprly calculate the amount since they also carry other vehicles such as a Sealance or the MS Landing Ship seen on 0083, which may or may not also occupy the same hangar space for MS.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:10 pm 
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According to the Japanese sources, the makeup of the submarine fleets was pretty flexible, with ships assigned and reassigned as needed. So we're unlikely to find a fixed structure.

In any case, it's important to note that Boone's group, which consists of two Jukon submarines, is classified as the 26th Submarine Squadron. That's a specific type of organizational unit, inferior to a fleet, and suggests that these submarines may have been grouped into small squadrons (pairs or whatnot) which were then attached to the fleets as needed. As you note, Char's Mad Angler is escorted by two Jukons when we first see it, and it then appears to rendezvous with Boone's squadron and stick with that group from Belfast onwards.

The MSV books claim that there were six submarine fleets, and in that case, we already know all their names. EB 39 claims that the first one was stationed in the north Pacific in June, and by July there were a total of ten, including fleets in the Indian and Arctic Oceans. Here's all the info I can find on the six mentioned in the MSV series:


ATLANTIC FLEETS

Mad Angler
Area of operation: Atlantic Ocean
Flanagan Boone's 26th Submarine Squadron is assigned to this fleet. Receives one MAM-07 Grublo and one MSM-10 Zock at end of war.

Sea Serpent
Area of operation: North Atlantic
U-48 is assigned to this fleet. Performs initial testing of Zaku Marine Type, and receives two MSM-01 units at end of war. Confirmed use of MSM-03 Gogg.

Manta Ray
Area of operation: North Atlantic
Receives one MSM-01 and two MSM-10 Zock units at end of war. According to Zeon Military File, as of early December, one Zock has been destroyed along with its Mad Angler-class mothership in an engagement with a Federation Forces anti-submarine task force near Florida. On December 3, the other unit hits a mine during testing, and is sent to San Diego for repairs.


PACIFIC FLEETS

Naga III
Area of operation: Pacific Ocean
Receives one MSM-01 unit at end of war. Confirmed use of MSM-07 Z'Gok and MSM-07E Z'Gok E.

Green Siren
Area of operation: South Pacific
Receives one MSM-01 unit at end of war. Uses mainly MSM-07 Z'Gok, rather than MSM-03 Gogg. Receives two surviving MAM-07 Grublo units, and at end of war these are both captured by Federation Forces near Madagascar. (The MSV series claims this fleet operates in the South Atlantic, but all later sources say South Pacific.)

Red Dolphin
Area of operation: South Pacific
Receives two MSM-01 units at end of war, and uses them mainly to support MSM-07 Z'Gok. Participates in Mediterranean landing operation.


As we've discussed, the MSV books say there were eight Mad Anglers and 24 Jukons; EB 39 says two Mad Anglers and, what, 84 Jukons? Neither set of figures seems entirely plausible. It seems likely that all the fleets are centered around Mad Angler-class motherships, and if Char's fleet is any guide, these should each have at last four Jukons under their direct command.

One other thing that occurs to me in looking at that list is that the Z'Gok seems to have been used mainly by the Pacific fleets. The dialogue in the original series suggests that Boone's forces have only just received the Z'Gok, so perhaps the Atlantic fleets only started getting them once they'd been fully deployed in the Pacific?


Concerning the Odessa evacuation, I suppose it's possible that the Mad Angler fleet may have been involved. Manta Ray and Sea Serpent are also stationed in the North Atlantic neighborhood, and we're told that Red Dolphin, normally stationed in the South Pacific, participated in a Mediterranean landing operation.

As far as carrying capacity, the standard Jukon carries two mobile suits. The deluxe U-99 seen in Gundam 0080 obviously carries four, and the medium-sized U-801 in Gundam 0083 is presumably somewhere in between. There are a range of guesses for the Mad Angler, but based on the original series, it can clearly fit at least five Z'Goks and one Grublo.

-- Mark


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