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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:37 am 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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I recently ran into some MS Igloo scans and found some interesting things.

I- First let's start with a rather obscure unit, the Hotol:

Hotol 1
Hotol 2

Those who have seen MS Igloo will remember these shuttles, which are seen along the large amount of HLVs that abandoned Odessa.

In the first image, we can see 3 linearts of it (I apologize for the small picture size, but for some reason the image is downscaled when I upload it). The one closest to the name is the important one: it shows a large hatch at the top of the Hotol, but most importantly, it shows a Zaku II floating above it, which most likely is meant to indicate that it can be used to load at least one MS. I also found odd the large amount of thrusters it has, so I was wondering if maybe this unit is meant to escape from Earth's atmosphere without a booster.

The second picture includes some text about the Hotol, but it doesn't seem to mention anything about its MS capacity. If possible, can someone please translate that section of the text?

II- Moving on, here is a picture which include what seemed to be a S-type Zaku used for Recon missions. It appeared when the Federation fleets depart from Solomon towards A Baoa Qu, performing a suicide mission in which it confirmed that the Federation Forces were heading to A Baoa Qu, and not to Granada. I find it interesting that we actually see units painted in black as a low visibility color, rather than a personal color scheme, since it doesn't seem to be a common practice in Gundam. Once again, I would like to ask that if someone can translate the text, to please share the information with us.

III- The next one is about the Chivvay (Chibe). I have previously asked about the odd opening on the main hull of the ship, just behind the bridge. However I recently realized a possible use for that opening: as a hatch for receiving MS and cool them down.

Cooling down an MS after combat is an aspect that seems not to be frequently mentioned or even considered in the different Gundam series, but there do have been a few mentions about this process, namely the case of the Papua, which we are told can't operate with Zaku IIs, since it's facilities are only good enough to cool down Zaku Is. More recently, the MS Igloo Version of the Musai took this concept back into consideration, and its redesigned hangar now includes a hatch for receiving returning MS, which we are told is not meant to hold a 4th MS which could definitely fit in the new hangar arrangement.

Although the Chibe came out after the Musai, it's possible that some of its modifications for converting it into a MS carrier unit included the addition of the cooling down facility, which allows it to operate other MS beside the Zaku I, unlike the Papua that was created at around the same time as the Chibe.

This do would have some other implications, such as pointing towards the possibility that despite the cramped space, the MS hangar of the Chibe extends for almost half of the ships length.

IV- Going back to the Musai model kit from the previous link, the review shows some interesting details regarding the Komusai. first of all, it seems that the Musai has a hatch that matches the area where the Komusai's rear hatch would connect while docked. While the Komusai may be able to load different types of cargo, I can't help but think that MS might also be unloaded this way and that a Musai might actually be able to store cargo or even additional MS down there.

V- The second question regarding this model is about the Komusai: exactly how many MS can it hold? Leaving aside for the time being the possibility of MS being loaded into the Musai's front hatch, from what can be seen on the model, it would seem that as many as 4 could actually fit, although it might be complicated for that many unit to get in and out easily (fortunately, the MS Igloo version of the Musai seems to actually leave enough space for the hatch to open without having to release the Komusai first).

Such arrangement might actually work in space, but what about on Earth? Well, as seen on MS Igloo ep 2, a Komusai seems to drop its cargo in midflight through the rear hatch. In the case of MS, they are most likely dropped just like the Zakus descending from Gaws on the flashback seen on MS Igloo 2 ep 1. Taking this into account, it would seem that only one unit can be put in the rear section of the Komusai, which can be directly released through the back, just like the Hildolfr. But, what about the two MS at the front. Well, if you look closely at the pic showing the empty Komusai, you will see some sort of rail in the floor, which one for each MS on the front of the Komusai, but only one on the rear, aligned directly with on in the front. The most likely answer is that the rear rail can be moved to both side, aligned and the move the MS at the front to the rear, where they are later aligned to the rear hatch prior to being released.

Since the Hildolfr is wider than a Zaku, and therefore too large to fit into one of the two MS spaces in the front, it would seem likely to assume that it was already loaded into the rear section in the middle rail. Thus, it would seem likely that 3 MS could be carried and unloaded (although we would need to check for weight restrictions to be sure) during a decent operation.

Thus in a normal situation, a Musai would probably still carry only five MS, while in an uncommon situation requiring to move it might be able to carry as many as 8, one in the Musai's cool down hatch and another two in the rail-less space inside the Komusai. During descent, the Komusai would carry two Ms, but it might be able to carry as many as 3 MS, two in the front spaces with latches for carrying MS, and another one ready for deployment, just like the Hildolfr.

IV- Finally, does anyone know if the MS Igloo version of the Musai is meant to no longer have any missile launchers? The opening of the two large missile launchers is still there, but the small missile launchers seem to have been converted into vents (though if they are still missile launchers, it would know have 16 instead of the original 10).

Comments, translations and corrections are welcome.


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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:27 am 
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Newtype Emo Guy

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The Hotol is the only thing I can help you with.

In the second picture, the text is really small, but here's a rough translation.

A ?????? transport plane used by Zeon, able to operate both in atmosphere and space. Travelling at the speed of sound, it is able to escape the atmosphere and return to space, allowing it to ferry materials between Earth and Space for a relatively lower cost than ????? large scale rockets. This ability was put to full use in the transport of materials and soldiers during the retreat from Odessa.

No mention of MS capacity as you suspected.


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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:19 am 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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The MS IGLOO "encyclopedia" type book says that this particular type of HOTL can hold one mobile suit. Interestingly enough, the HLVs can hold 6 units and up to 60 personnel.


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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:55 am 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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Thanks for the replies so far.

The transaltion provided 2NA Fish would seem to indicate that this unit it mainly meant to brind its cargo from Earth to space. This along to its MS hangar location makes me think that it might have not been deployed along with the Komusais during the decent operations as I originally suggested, but this did make me question if the original version of the Komusai can be launched back into space?, which as far as I know, its somethign we never see.

By the way, after looking at some more images of the Hotol, I think I'm starting to find see some resemblance to the Komusai II. Could these two be related?

The same source also has some larger version of the lineart I previously posted of the Chibe. It still not well enough to give a definitie conclusion, but it do would appear that the opening behind the bridge might actually reach into the MS hangar. If that is indeed the case, then it is within possibilities that it is indeed used to retrieve MS and cool them down, just like the hatch in front of the bridge of the MS Igloo version of the Musai.

Deacon, thank you very much for the data on the HLV, it's one a particular piece of information I had looked around for a long time.

Finally, does anyone knows what the 0080 version of the Komusai looks like? I have been trying to find a pciture of it, but had no luck. Currently I'm trying to find an image of it as part of the units form the Gihren's Greed videogames.


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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:04 am 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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I'll expand on what the IGLOO book has to say:

HOTOL LINEART INFO wrote:
Earth transfer-and-return vehicle of the Principality of Zeon forces. While it appears to have considerable size compared to mobile suits, the rear section appears to mainly be an engine block. A single mobile suit can be stored in the container to the rear of the cockpit.


CHIBE-CLASS INFORMATION wrote:
Differing from the Chibe-class confirmed thus far, the central part of the ship's body becomes concave. The internal structure and what not is unknown. Starting with the main battery, gun platforms were installed throughout the hull, suggesting that it was constructed as a battleship.*

ジオン公国軍でも最初期に建造された艦艇のため、特徴的なシルエットをしている。The construction of the forward mobile suit hatch would later be inherited by the Tivvay-class.


I don't think the section is used for mobile suit cooling as you suspect...

As for the Musai... there is a hatch on the flat part right below the ship's bridge. Furthermore, there is a hatch at the rear of the body for mobile suits to launch from (face down).

*I think I have that section right.


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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:25 am 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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The explanation about the Chibe makes it sound like it is a different type of ship from the original, which is supposedly not the case of all the refit versions seen on MS Igloo. Comparing the original version and the MS Igloo version, the middle of the ship seems to be about the same size, but the front and the end sections seem to be bigger than the original.

On the other hand, the mention about the MS hatch may be hinting that before the conversion for carrying MS, the cargo wasn't loaded through the front, which would make the back opening a likely candidate for this. Alternatively, this could be where the Chibe's Gobble squadron entered and launched from.

I went to the official MS Igloo site and used the QTVW 360° VIEW of the Chibe's profile to look at the ship from above, and it doesn't seem that the opening goes very deep into the ship. There's also some text, but I can't understand what it says. Could you please translate that part?


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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:13 am 
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Newtype Emo Guy

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I'll have a go at translating.

-------------------------

Chibe class High Speed Heavy Cruiser

One of the ships from the early period after the founding of Zeon. With 3 setups of Large size Three-Barrelled Mega Particle Cannons mounted on the front and back of the ship as its main armaments, it was considered to be at a high standard in anti-warship offensive power.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:56 am 
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Okawara x Katoki Love Child
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Thanks for the translation 2NA fish.

This seems to confirm that at least the MS Igloo version of the Chibe is indeed upgraded from the original battleships created prior to MS development. But Deacon's information still seems to point out that at least two types of Chibe's existed, whose main differences seem to be the dimensions and the third 3-barrel MPC turret.

Deacon:

Is there any additional information about MS Igloo's Chibe, which could confirm if it is indeed a different type from the original version?

Also, I'm starting to think I might have misunderstood your earlier post. When you said:

Deacon Blues wrote:
I don't think the section is used for mobile suit cooling as you suspect...


Were you referring to the Chibe, or to the Musai?


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:54 pm 
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The article says that there's the Conscon color (aka the red one) and then there's a "Musai green" variant.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:23 pm 
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At first I did consider the possibility that the MS Igloo version could be exclusively a refit of the green Chibe. However there do is at least one a red Chibe in MS Igloo, seen among the Granada forces that rescue the Jotunheim soon after Gihren fires Solar Ray. this chibe is seen along with a green one, and they do look physically the same, minus the color scheme.


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