Beam Saber Deflections?

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Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Hi_Nu_Gundam » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:32 pm

Something I've wondered for a long time, can a Beam Saber absorb/deflect shots from beam weapons like Star Wars Lightsabers? I'd always assumed they could, considering that a Beam shield is basically a flat beam saber. Has it ever been done in any Gundam works?
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by ShadowCell » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:50 pm

Kira does it a few times in Gundam SEED.

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Arsarcana » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:23 pm

Loran used his sabers as impromptu beam shields as well by spinning the things really quickly. It's not quite deflection Star Wars-style but it probably counts.

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by mcred23 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:17 am

We also see the same thing done in F91 by Seabook and Birgit when they fight the Bugs, and I'm pretty sure it's done at some point in Victory as well.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by SonicSP » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:31 pm

While I'll have to review it again to be sure, I think Graham blocked one or two of Trans-Am 00 Gundam's shots in Gundam 00 using the Ahead Sakigake's saber. It was in the battle above the sea earlier in season two.

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by DoubleZero » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:44 am

SonicSP wrote:While I'll have to review it again to be sure, I think Graham blocked one or two of Trans-Am 00 Gundam's shots in Gundam 00 using the Ahead Sakigake's saber. It was in the battle above the sea earlier in season two.
Graham did it twice in the special editions, first was to block Trans-Am 00, and the second was from the attacks of the other Gundams.

IIRC Setsuna did it as well in the episode where the Meisters tried to get back into outer space. Episode 10, maybe?
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by valkyriepilot » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:08 am

mcred23 wrote:We also see the same thing done in F91 by Seabook and Birgit when they fight the Bugs, and I'm pretty sure it's done at some point in Victory as well.
Seabook (as Kincaide Nau) does it again with the Crossbone's Beam Zanber to block a VSBR shot from Harrison Martin's F91 in the Crossbone manga (albeit with the help of 2 layers of beam shields; goes to show how deadly the F91 VSBR is).

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by SonicSP » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm

DoubleZero wrote:
SonicSP wrote:While I'll have to review it again to be sure, I think Graham blocked one or two of Trans-Am 00 Gundam's shots in Gundam 00 using the Ahead Sakigake's saber. It was in the battle above the sea earlier in season two.
Graham did it twice in the special editions, first was to block Trans-Am 00, and the second was from the attacks of the other Gundams.

IIRC Setsuna did it as well in the episode where the Meisters tried to get back into outer space. Episode 10, maybe?
Episode 9 I believe, the same episode where the Meister fought Arche for the first time.

I think in that scenario, he actually used the GN Sword IIs to block the beams from the Baikal rather than a beam saber. Setsuna rarely used beam sabers with 00 as it is.

Some buster swords in Gundam 00 like the Zwei and 00 Seven Sword's also double as shields in design spec I believe. I was kinda surprised a GN Sword could do it, but then again they do have a GN Field layer on the blade, so maybe its not so surprising afterall.

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:34 pm

I believe that the fact that the beam saber being able to block beam shots is what let SNRI and Bush to desgin the Beam Sheld witch is an thin beam saber that emits out of an tiny shield. the AD Gundams integrate what accounts to an simple GN Field in there physical hand carried Shelds. The GN-X class ms have an modified version of the old defense rod that can do the same thing. With the VSBR it was an gun designed to penetrate beam shelds so the added layers of beam shelds and the saber may have slowed the blast down enough to not cause major damage.

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by J-Lead » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 pm

A beam saber is, by definition, an I-field containing high energy Minovsky particles in a set shape (in this case, a blade.) Since I-fields are used to control and compress M-particles in the first place, logically, they can diffuse incoming Mega particles as well (whole gimmick behind the I-field Barrier as well as how beam sabers clash with each other.) In that sense, a beam saber doesn't necessarily deflect incoming beams like in Star Wars, but rather diffuses the mega particles that make them up. I imagine that this doesn't make it a good defense against beam rifle shots, however, as logically there would be considerable back blast from the diffused particles that would still cause damage to the MS (keep in mind, these particles are going super fast and only diffusing around the beam saber, not completely dispersing,) so the best option is still to simply dodge beam weaponry altogether.

In other words, think of the beam saber as a really narrow I-field Barrier that sucks at it's job.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:00 pm

JEFFPIATT wrote:I believe that the fact that the beam saber being able to block beam shots is what let SNRI and Bush to desgin the Beam Sheld witch is an thin beam saber that emits out of an tiny shield. the AD Gundams integrate what accounts to an simple GN Field in there physical hand carried Shelds. The GN-X class ms have an modified version of the old defense rod that can do the same thing. With the VSBR it was an gun designed to penetrate beam shelds so the added layers of beam shelds and the saber may have slowed the blast down enough to not cause major damage.
More the Nu Gundam's Fin Funnel Beam Barrier, only the emitting was more inverted in that, rather than having the emitters forming a shape on the points outside, they simply had 1 single emitter spreading the beam shape out all around.

Though, you do see a more Nu Gundam-like version with the Victory 2's Mega Beam Shield with its central (in the shield itself) + the 3 separate emitters that fire out from each end point, essentially making it as strong as 4+ beam shields.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Seraphic » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:48 pm

Beam sabers shouldn't be able to deflect beam shots well at all due to the fact that the beam bolt is a fluid.

It'd be kinda like trying to block a water balloon with a sword. The water will splash around the blade and spray you all over. While that may reduce the damage by dispersing the concentrated mass, I imagine you'd still take damage from the spread out particles that will still hit you.

And to answer the topic's Star Wars reference, there's no way a beam saber could reflect or absorb a beam shot in the way depicted in the movies. You'd probably need a really big I-field generator to do that instead.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:32 pm

And yet, they do in at least one example: Kira in the Freedom does exactly that at least once, deflecting/blocking beam rifle shots with its beam sabers - as has been mentioned.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Red Comet90 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:59 am

Dark Duel wrote:And yet, they do in at least one example: Kira in the Freedom does exactly that at least once, deflecting/blocking beam rifle shots with its beam sabers - as has been mentioned.
Is there any in Universe reason for how this is possible? Obviously the Minovsky Particle argument doesn't hold much in the Cosmic Era since they don't use them.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:56 am

Well, as far as I know, we don't have any explanation for how CE beam weapons (rifles or sabers) work, so it's really impossible to tell.
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Hi_Nu_Gundam » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:59 am

Thanks for all your replies everyone!
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:53 am

They probably don't want to do it too much anyway, or they might risk the wrath of Lucasfilm. :P
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Zeonista » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:49 pm

To give another UC example, in Ecole du Ciel volume 12, Asuna use two beam sabers with the Le Cygne's hands on full rotation spin to create mini-shields in order to parry multiple shots from an opponent. It's only a partial success, leading to her MS taking serious damage, but she's able to leave the combat under power, which is good enough, ne?
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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Ceiling_Squid » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:25 am

JEFFPIATT wrote:I believe that the fact that the beam saber being able to block beam shots is what let SNRI and Bush to desgin the Beam Sheld witch is an thin beam saber that emits out of an tiny shield. the AD Gundams integrate what accounts to an simple GN Field in there physical hand carried Shelds. The GN-X class ms have an modified version of the old defense rod that can do the same thing. With the VSBR it was an gun designed to penetrate beam shelds so the added layers of beam shelds and the saber may have slowed the blast down enough to not cause major damage.
This bit about SNRI and Buch makes sense, yeah.

It's basically the guiding principle behind beam shields. What applies to beam shields likely applies to beam sabers then, at least in UC continuity. As someone mentioned a bit earlier, it's likely that the beam might spill around the saber, if only becuase a beam saber doesnt have the same coverage as a beam shield.

The question I have then...does this mean that a VSBR can penetrate a more conventional I-field barrier, like what we see on the Big Zam and other mobile armors? If the I-field is the key to a beam shield's function here, I figure it would operate that way.

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Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Post by Cmdr Harabec » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:58 am

Ceiling_Squid wrote:The question I have then...does this mean that a VSBR can penetrate a more conventional I-field barrier, like what we see on the Big Zam and other mobile armors? If the I-field is the key to a beam shield's function here, I figure it would operate that way.
I can't recall any scene showing an I-Field stopping a VSBR in any media off the top of my head, but it's pretty well implied it would. We see that beam shields aren't limited to being broken by VSBRs in F91 - battleship fire tears through the beam shields with repeated hits. I-Fields have been known to stop such fire (and even more powerful weapons, as is the case with the X-3 mostly stropping the Divinidad's enormous built in head cannon) with little issues. The containment I-Field of beam shields and beam sabres etc are much weaker than the full power I-Field barrier systems, and thus more easily broken. Such is the trade off for requiring less power to utilize.

There is one instance I can recall of an I-Field barrier ever being "broken," and that's in Crossbone Steel Seven. The Patchwork X-1 puts up its I-Field directly in front of the Cornix's headmounted VSBR/beam cannon/whatever (shield piercing weapon, though, as seen in the first chapter when it pierces a Flint's beam shield) and the beam is sort of deflected, but it's so close it still hits part of the arm and melts it away. It's not really breaking it, but more it seems that the hand was so close to the barrier the beam could only be deflected so much. This is a little at odds with how we've seen the X-3's I-fields emit before, but perhaps it could have been forming and expanding or something. Who knows? At any rate, that's the only example I can think of.

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