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 Post subject: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Basically, occasionally we see a weapon, equipment, or add-on of some kind that is only used in 1-2 series, but then just seems to completely disappear (or at least become extremely scarce after).

Any (other) in-universe reasons for some?


Immediate ones I recall being things like...

Built-in beam sabers in beam weapons; the Zeta most known with its beam rifle and even the hyper mega launcher doubling as beam sabers, and the Feyadeen rifle with the Gabthley and Hambrabi also could double as a beam saber.

The jitte defensive add-on with the GP01Fb's beam rifle (and, had it been completed, the GP04G's).

Bayonets (R-Jarja and some Geara Doga beam rifles).

Quasi-psycommu system. Seems to disappear after ZZ/Sentinal. Only guess I have here is cost and perhaps complexity that prevented newer/less experienced pilots from being able to use it effectively. Most that did use it were (most likely) ace pilots except for Ryo Roots, but his lack of skill was made up for by ALICE. I guess the more limited use of the incom too (only 3 shots)?

Bio-sensor (besides ZOINKs, lol). Can also only guess cost (despite supposing to be a cheaper version of the psycommu system, lol).

High mega cannon. Obviously, at the time of ZZ, reactors were still quite small on mass production MS (2000s usually) and even the ZZ could only muster 1 full-powered shot (without bio-sensor hax involved) with a 7340/7680 kW reactor with the original, but with reactors averaging out in the 4000-5000s by F91 and Victory, you'd think some more support or bombardment-based MS could've had a smaller one installed like the Methuss Kai. Otherwise, as usual, cost would be an issue I guess.



...feel free to add on anything else you may think of too.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Quote:
Built-in beam sabers in beam weapons; the Zeta most known with its beam rifle and even the hyper mega launcher doubling as beam sabers, and the Feyadeen rifle with the Gabthley and Hambrabi also could double as a beam saber.

That concept seems to drop out with the concept of transforming MS. post UC 100 MS tech enters miniaturization and keeping costs down it may be cheaper to have oyo style beam sabers on smaller ms.

Quote:
The jitte defensive add-on with the GP01Fb's beam rifle (and, had it been completed, the GP04G's).

Bayonets (R-Jarja and some Geara Doga beam rifles).

That concept evolved in to the shot lancers that contain machine guns and act to disable an ms without setting off the reactor

Quote:
Quasi-psycommu system. Seems to disappear after ZZ/Sentinal. Only guess I have here is cost and perhaps complexity that prevented newer/less experienced pilots from being able to use it effectively. Most that did use it were (most likely) ace pilots except for Ryo Roots, but his lack of skill was made up for by ALICE. I guess the more limited use of the incom too (only 3 shots)?

Bio-sensor (besides ZOINKs, lol). Can also only guess cost (despite supposing to be a cheaper version of the psycommu system, lol).

post CCA Newtype Tech and All range attaack equipment drops out of heavy use due to a lack of newtypes and cost. F91 era we have the biocomputer built by snri that functions like the old Bio-sensor with less of an dependence on "magic" While psycommu tech is only scene in the Rafflesia with its neo-psycommu system that allows the MA to be controlled solely by mental input. in Victory the only used in in a satellite.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:34 pm 
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I figured such a concept would still at least give MS a nice surprise feature and further prevent beam rifles from simply becoming dead weight after they run out of ammo (as not every MS switched out to e-pacs).

Victory also had the Gengaozo, but only had the backpack as a single strong remote unit rather than a dozen bits/funnels or anything, which seemed to show how the tech "devolved" from earlier concepts, given how large the backpack is, making it far easier to shoot down than bits/funnels, even for non-Newtype pilots. On the plus side, it does grant it far greater firepower with its 5 beam launchers rather than much smaller beam guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:29 pm 
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By Victory there is also a loss of technology BESPA lacks the technical data to build an Aquatic MS witch seems to have been lost Since the oyo. the ZMT-S37S Zanspine uses traditional bits instead of the uav approach the Gengaozo used.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Yeah, the last successful marine MS being the F90 Marine Type and the Mars Zeon/Oldsmobile Army with the RF Z'Gok.

Pretty much every other attempt besides them was always a failure in some way. I haven't seen anything that specifically said why the Capule wasn't so good though. Just that it wasn't very well-liked and such. Can't really blame the Kapool's "greatly improved" performance in Turn A given it was one of the first MS to be found en masse by the Militia and all, lol.

And the Zanspine only used 4 bits too rather than trying to make some sort of add-on for more. Then again, with its high performance already, 4 is probably all it'd need with 2 detachable Minovsky Drive engines for giant hand-held beam weapons and beam strings.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:10 pm 
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That comment spawned from the description of BESPA's aquatic ms That seems to come from the inabilty to actually test these units before deployment. The Earth Federation has always had better luck doing them but never pushes it beyond the Zaku mariner by unicorn they return to the aqua GM and do not build marine ms based on modern RGM frames the f90m seems to be the last built but there is an lack of data on it since it only existed in the model kit series. the same goes with the RF Z'Gok since the manga has them sticking with 0079 era ms.
http://www.mahq.net/MECHA/gundam/f90/f90m.htm
http://www.mahq.net/MECHA/gundam/f90/omsm-07rf.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:32 am 
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Another thing that I don't recall seeing used too often; gatling guns.

Only ones I immediately recall using one (in terms of specifically saying "gatling gun" in some form) being the...

One Year War-era:

Gundam G04 (large, hand-held gatling gun)
Gundam Alex (90mm gatling guns in each arm)


Char's Counterattack/Gundam Unicorn:

Quess's Jagd Doga (mega gatling gun)
Gundam Unicorn (beam gatling gun)



Formula Project:

F90D Gundam F90 Destroid Type (mega gatling gun on left side)
F90V Gundam F90 VSBR Type (mega gatling gun on right arm)


Other universe, you got the Heavyarms (Kai/Custom) with its (beam) gatling gun(s) on its arm(s) and in the chest in Gundam Wing, and the Gundam Leopard (Destroy) with the inner-arm gatling un and the 2 gatling guns in the chest in Gundam X.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:58 am 
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Mysterious Masked Dude

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Probably the same reason you don't see soldiers using Miniguns on foot much


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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:09 am 
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Well, with the exception of the G04 (which was actually a more realistic portrayal of a gatling gun, IMO), it didn't seem like a lot of those MS gatling guns were really too large, unwieldy, etc (in a way like the G04's anyway) like they would be for flesh and blood soldiers. It helps that MS, despite being humanoid, are still mobile weapons themselves like tanks, APCs, or something of that nature that could fit such weaponry.

The Gundm Alex's gatling guns fit snugly into its arms easily enough, the Jagd Doga's mega gatling gun looked was the size of a machine gun if slightly larger, the mega gatling gun of the F90V VSBR Type fit right on its wrist, and the mega gatling gun of the F90D Destroid Type fixed easily enough onto its left side.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:38 am 
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Every MS which has "vulcans" has Gatling guns. Oh, they're not called "Gatling guns," no, but they're multi-barrel rotary machine guns/cannons, which is all a "Gatling gun" is. Comes from being named after the M61 "Vulcan" 20mm rotary cannon. And you can add the Heavy Gundam (FA-78-2 from MSV-X) and its Heavy Launcher to the list of OYW Gatling systems, along with the shield-mounted Gatling of the Gouf B-3 and H-8 types.


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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:05 am 
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Ah yes, the shield gatling. Forgot about that one. Then I guess we can add the Victory's vulcan cannon to that list too (though, only used in 1 episode early on, IIRC) and the Wing Gundam Zero's shoulder vulcans.

Crossbone Gundam was the only one that used the anti-beam cloak, unless the Sandrock Custom's cloak had some similar function.

The whole nozzle system and shot lancer pretty seemed to drop out after F91 and Crossbone Gundam. (I know the Javelin had them in Victory, but they were F91-era MS that were simply kept around after said conflicts like the Jegan from CCA into F91. And I also don't recall them actually being used in Victory either.)

Mega beam rifles seem to be a bit of a rarity. At least the larger, more powerful kinds (seem more like hand-held mega beam cannons than anything, especially in Victory). I'd guess, again, cost and being more mission-specific due to their size and whatnot.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:05 am 
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HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
The whole nozzle system and shot lancer pretty seemed to drop out after F91 and Crossbone Gundam. (I know the Javelin had them in Victory, but they were F91-era MS that were simply kept around after said conflicts like the Jegan from CCA into F91. And I also don't recall them actually being used in Victory either.)


The Javelin does use its shot lancer in Victory. It may have only been once, since they don't focus on the RGM-122 that much, but it is at least shown spearing one Zanscare MS during one of the larger battles. The Crossbones developed them to reduce the use of beam weapons around colonies (And thus MS exploding in spectacular fashion), but it seems that the Zanscare Empire doesn't seem to be worried about that (And the Javelin is the main EFSF unit, so maybe we can say they were still worried about it :P). Part of why they aren't used much, I would think, is the issue with how many shots they really have, as they only seem to have a handful of shots that can be launched before they're out of ammo, so they aren't that useful unless you are in a situation like the Crossbones were (Always inside or close to space colonies).

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:07 pm 
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Yeah...or the Federation is just that much lazier in re-equipping the Javelins with missile/rocket launchers and such like they're able to.

Either that or, because of beam shields, the shot lancer is seen as just a better option given missiles/rockets (if small enough) could easily be blocked by a beam shield.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Black Knight wrote:
Every MS which has "vulcans" has Gatling guns. Oh, they're not called "Gatling guns," no, but they're multi-barrel rotary machine guns/cannons, which is all a "Gatling gun" is. Comes from being named after the M61 "Vulcan" 20mm rotary cannon. And you can add the Heavy Gundam (FA-78-2 from MSV-X) and its Heavy Launcher to the list of OYW Gatling systems, along with the shield-mounted Gatling of the Gouf B-3 and H-8 types.

the system that is shown in the gundams head is the M61 Vulcan style system witch is a Gatling-style rotary cannon where the barrel spins to reduce heat the way the guns look on the outisde is like a Revolver Cannon witch has one barrel. and works like a revolver handgun where the bullets rotate in to a firing chamber. The Gundam series has shown an slant to have MS use NATO type equipment for firearms and USSR type boats.

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 Post subject: Re: Usage drop
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:50 pm 
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While going through profiles again, I haven't really seen beam vulcan guns used very much (in the head and otherwise).

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