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 Post subject: Anti-Beam Coating In ZZ
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:20 am 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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So,as we are normally told and shown,anti-beam coating is this relatively low effeciency defense measure that provides limited protection from beam weaponry,normally giving up after a couple of consecutive shots from an average beam rifle...someone forgot to inform Psyco Mk.II and Full Armor ZZ.

Now,Psyco Mk.II gets,at the very least,closely grazed by the insanely powerful Hyper Mega Particle Cannon of Argama,yet recieves only insignifacant,completely negligible damage.Now I know it was only narrowly hit(it was only grazed,right?If it tanked a direct hit,I'm even more confused),but the beam of that magnitude should have atleast burned a good chunk that armor off.Alternatively,if ABC really is the limited defence we're told it is,it would be exhausted enough for the armor to be rendered defenseless against beams later on,yet it was still tanking ZZ's rifle without much trouble.

Ok,I might buy that,since Psyco's so zoinking big,they were able to put enough ABC on it to build up some super tough protection through sheer volume.Kind of like,how in CE, Phase Shift on Mobile Suits is useless against beamfire but there's enough of it on Genesis to ward of Archangel's cannons.However,there is an issue of FA ZZ,which despite being a suit of normal size,has coating strong enough to tank a full,concetrated,prolonged barrage head on without as much as a scratch...barrage from Quin freaking Mantha.

How so?Doesn't this throw a hatchet into the whole ABC weak protection thing?

While at it,there are some other ZZ defence issues involved:

*Where the hell did FA ZZ's I-Field come from?

*Where the hell did Qubeley get a barrier,one strong enough to stop ZZ's High Mega Cannon at that?

*Quin Mantha's beam reflection system thingy is extremely useful and formidable,yet never used on anything after that.Why?


I really hope most of my questions can't be answered with Newtype magic.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:45 am 
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Do you remember which episodes these things happened in?

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:36 pm 
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I remember that episode, it was right after Dublin colony drop. I forgot the episode number though. But that episode is also where Judau use his Newtype power to re-activate his completely spent hyper beam saber. So yeah, that episode has full of Newtype magic.

And IIRC, Psyco Mk.II used reflector bits on that episode.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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Psyco Mk.II survives the Hyper Mega Cannon in episode 36.It's the episode where Ple 2 gets into action and
Spoiler: show
causes Ple 1 a death
,making enraged Judau go all Bio-Sensor on her.

FA ZZ tanks Quin Mantha's barrage in episode forty-six,during the whole battle with the NZ-000,the one where Glemy gets into the thing and tries to urge Ple 2 to fry those meddling Gundam kids.FA ZZ also displayes what seems to be an I-Field in the very same episode,when Judau goes after Rakan and his Doven Wolf.

Qubeley shows off a field in the final showdown between Haman and Judau.
Quote:
But that episode is also where Judau use his Newtype power to re-activate his completely spent hyper beam saber.

And,unless it was an animation mistake,have ZZ fly without the use of thrusters.Newtype magic knows no bounds.
Quote:
And IIRC, Psyco Mk.II used reflector bits on that episode.

Yes,but that was against Ple's Qubeley.It may be my memory lacking,but I don't remember Reflector Bits deployed to counter the Hyper Mega.

It would be a pretty impressive feat nonetheless,considering that the radius of that beam was alot greater than R.Bits themselves.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:50 am 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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FAEZZ's "I-Field" has been the topic of debate for ages. It's never been said as far as I know, but it very much appears to have one based on how nonchalant Judau is when the beams are stopped by the Doven Wolves. He doesn't seem to be displaying anywhere near the sort of emotion or will or whathaveyou Kamille does when he generates his I-Field, and at that Zeta's Biosensor I-Field was skintight as I recall - ZZ's is clearly spherical in that scene, I do believe? I'm working on memory only here.

The Qubeley's barrier is pretty silly. I've heard explanations of it using the beam sabre to project an I-Field barrier, but that's... a little far fetched, I think, for a beam sabre I-Field to block the High Mega Cannon's shot as it did. I'd attribute it entirely to them playing with Minovsky Resonance Theory, as all the crazy shenanigans in Zeta, Double Zeta, and CCA ultimately kind of play off of it. As for why Haman was doing it without a Biosensor or anything more than a simple psycommu in her Qubeley? Guess she just had the will, or something.

ZZ as a series really doesn't like to play consistently with the scifi side of Gundam. They did what they wanted quite a bit. As I recall ZZ's tanking beams throughout quite a bit of the series, before they even give it Anti-Beam Coating - which they explicitly mention is an upgrade applied to the Enhanced Double Zeta.

As for the Quin Mantha barrier, your guess is as good as any. Probably because it's pretty weird and doesn't honestly make as much sense by the rules of the universe as simple I-Fields do. I've never read any explanation how it actually redirects beams, and I doubt they gave it one.

Beyond that, who knows? That's the best I've got on it.

I don't really remember the Psyco Mark II deal with the Hyper Mega Particle Cannon, but I do believe it's capable of using its built-in M-Craft as an I-Field? I've heard this before, but it's again something I've never seen real written proof of. Judging by the damage it does to other things, simply being near it should have done pretty significant damage. But again, ZZ rather plays by its own rules.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:28 am 
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Newtype magic...lol.



Yeah, ZZ seemed to go quite a bit more along the more fantastical super-robot route rather than the "real" super robot route UC Gundam is usually known for; a bunch of things happen that there is just little to no actual explanation given or that could even be given for. It's just done because it looks cool or is most convenient or something.

For the Psyco Gundam Mark II and the Hyper Mega Particle Cannon, it could've simply been a trick of the eye. I mean, they were firing at the general area Pie Two was at, pointed out by Pie, and not like a pinpoint accurate location, so it could've just completely missed, I dunno, lol.

At the very least, the "I-Field" used against the Quin Mantha could be attributed to bio-sensor ZOINKS at work again driven by Judau's will to take Pie Two away from Glemy, given it responds to strong emotion and will, not solely anger and all as Kamille usually did.

We also can't forget that, while The O did have a bio-sensor and that could explain Scirocco's side of things (and even possibly Mashymere's Zaku III), the Qubeley did not, yet Haman was standing on equal footing with Scirocco during their little Newtype stand-off in Zeta with both of their MS giving off auras of similar size and power.

While we don't know precisely how the Quin Mantha/Queen Mansa's "mega particle deflection system" works, considering it was based off the Qubeley and the Psyco Gundam Mark II, of which had Reflector Bits, more than likely it was made combining the normal I-Field and however the Reflector Bits worked, considering I doubt it was just simple mirroring or anything that allowed them (or the S Gundam's Reflector Incoms) to outright reflect beam weapons, but probably some sort of I-Field manipulation that was applied large scale rather than on small remote units.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:40 am 
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the queen mantha beam reflector system is used in the anime, so i guess it's just a fancy name for an i-field barrier(the animations reinforces this).


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:45 am 
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It was used once to reflect a barrage of Chara's Funnel attacks from several directions. After that, it was never seen again and there hasn't been any explanations for its inner workings. The only clue we have is the regular I-Field + Psyco Gundam Mark II's Reflector Bits really.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:53 am 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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Thanks for the input.
Cmdr Harabec wrote:
FAEZZ's "I-Field" has been the topic of debate for ages. It's never been said as far as I know, but it very much appears to have one based on how nonchalant Judau is when the beams are stopped by the Doven Wolves. He doesn't seem to be displaying anywhere near the sort of emotion or will or whathaveyou Kamille does when he generates his I-Field, and at that Zeta's Biosensor I-Field was skintight as I recall - ZZ's is clearly spherical in that scene, I do believe? I'm working on memory only here.

The barrier in question was perfectly in line with the common depiction of full defensive I-Fields-an invisible sphere that becomes transparently visible when in contact with a beam.Now,not only is the I-Field not mentioned at all either in dialogue or specs,but it doesn't even show up afterwards,when FA ZZ recieves beamfire from Quin Mantha.Not to mention that it's suppossedly to early for suit-mounted omnidirectional I-Field.

So it's either magic trickery of the Bio-Sensor or a good ol' technological plothole.Perhaps Judau had learned to activate the Bio-Sensor voluntarily(or just with less Newtype angst and dead people).Plothole isn't outside the realm of possibilites either-it's possible that writer(s) or animator(s) were led to believe that FA ZZ did indeed possess an I-Field.

Quote:
I've heard explanations of it using the beam sabre to project an I-Field barrier, but that's... a little far fetched

I too am inclined to take this theory with a hefty grain of salt.Afterall,if an ordinary beamsaber can do that,why has no one used it that way before or after that point?

Quote:
As I recall ZZ's tanking beams throughout quite a bit of the series, before they even give it Anti-Beam Coating - which they explicitly mention is an upgrade applied to the Enhanced Double Zeta.

Also,there was this Baund Doc shrugging of beamrifle fire during one of the Rosamia episodes in Zeta.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
Newtype magic...lol.

Bio-Sensor can be abbreviated as "BS". :wink:

Quote:
For the Psyco Gundam Mark II and the Hyper Mega Particle Cannon, it could've simply been a trick of the eye. I mean, they were firing at the general area Pie Two was at, pointed out by Pie, and not like a pinpoint accurate location, so it could've just completely missed, I dunno, lol.

I think I remember them doing contact,although it may just be my memory.This would make some sense though-I can totally buy Psyco surviving close proximity with the beam.That kills you average joe MS,but I think that big ol' AB coated Psyco Mark II could live through that.

Quote:
At the very least, the "I-Field" used against the Quin Mantha could be attributed to bio-sensor ZOINKS at work again driven by Judau's will to take Pie Two away from Glemy, given it responds to strong emotion and will, not solely anger and all as Kamille usually did.

Yeah,at this point I think that Bio-Sensor is the only plausible in-universe explanation for FA ZZ's shenanigans.Come to think of it,right before taking on QM's stream of Minovsky death,Judau's Gundam was giving of this weird shining.So maybe it was infact Newtype wonders,not ABC,tanking those beams.Unless this "shine" was an animation error,which isn't all that far-fetched since it looks quite like a part of the barrage the suit recieves later on.

Quote:
We also can't forget that, while The O did have a bio-sensor and that could explain Scirocco's side of things (and even possibly Mashymere's Zaku III), the Qubeley did not, yet Haman was standing on equal footing with Scirocco during their little Newtype stand-off in Zeta with both of their MS giving off auras of similar size and power.
[/quote]
Well,Qubeley was the personal unit of Haman Karn.It's quite possible that they had upgraded it to be on equal footing with these new fancy units.For all we know,they could have equipped it with a Bio-Sensor.I've heard that they retconned Mashymere's Zaku III to have a Bio-Sensor,so why not do the same for Haman's Qubeley?

Bandai,this could use a retcon. :D


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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:35 pm 
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It would definitely make that scene make a lot more sense, that's for sure, lol. Or Haman was just THAT strong (though, still not as strong as Judau, obviously).

Still, the Qubeley at least was noticeably damaged anyway (missing one of its shoulder binders and obvious aesthetic damage anyway), which goes to show just how powerful the full power of the high mega cannon is. (The Gundam Musou games, with a grain of salt, saying that, at peak output, it's 20% the power of a colony laser x_x.)

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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:25 am 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:33 pm
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HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
Still, the Qubeley at least was noticeably damaged anyway (missing one of its shoulder binders and obvious aesthetic damage anyway), which goes to show just how powerful the full power of the high mega cannon is.

The fact that the kinetic force of the High Mega rammed Qubeley right through a thick wall probably helped as well. :mrgreen:

Quote:
The Gundam Musou games, with a grain of salt, saying that, at peak output, it's 20% the power of a colony laser x_x.

In one of the FRAG specials,the beam creates a big explosion that looks a bit like a small nuke going off.


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