Obscure Gundam Wing Weaponry & Equipment

[Underrated GM Custom]

Good morning everyone,

I'm looking to track down some information on some lesser known equipment for Gundam Wing so I'm hoping you can help me out with the below questions. Many of these are clarifications with the design shifts between TV & EW.

Acronyms: EW = Endless Waltz, GotL = Glory of the Losers

Altron Gundam
In the TV series it has a stinger tail that houses 2x Beam Cannons. Does this exist on the Katoki EW version? I didn't see it during EW but was curious if it exists and if it makes an appearance in GotL?

Sandrock Gundam
Sandrock has a blinding flash type weapon, I believe it's located in it's shield. Does this weapon function like the beam flash we see on the Dom series? Does it every show up in the animation, original manga or GotL?

I'm curious if it is a frequently used system or a last resort system. I've been wondering if every time they reuse the footage of sandrock cutting a Leo in half after a camera cut that animation technique is meant to represent the flash being used.

Beam submachinegun does this exist on the Katoki design or show up anywhere like in GotL?

Deathscythe Gundam
Just wanted to make sure I understand how it's stealth systems worked.

Original Deathscythe has a Hyper Jammer which is an ECM suite where it's somehow invisible to electronic sensors. This has no effect on visual since they can still see the MS via the main camera. Is there ever a range thrown out for this system in the kits? Doesn't have to be a number I'm just curious how close this system will let you get before it becomes detected.

Deathscythe Hell has improved jammers and also an Active Cloak that blocks optical/visual. I'm guessing this system can fool the main camera of a MS. The Active Cloak is only active when the 'wings' are down correct? I'm guessing its also power intensive and has a limited runtime.

Heavy Arms Gundam
So the combat knife on the original model, does this exist on the Katoki design or show up anywhere like in GotL?

Wing Zero EW
I've heard the Wings can be used as a Shield. They're pretty effective at reentry afterall. Does anyone recall the wings being used as a shield in either GotL or a variant doing so in Frozen Teardrop?

Leo
I primarily remember Leo's using the rifle, dobergun and bazooka. I don't recall the shorty beam rifle unless that's the primary weapon for the space type Leos?

[Arsarcana]

Altron Gundam
In the TV series it has a stinger tail that houses 2x Beam Cannons. Does this exist on the Katoki EW version? I didn't see it during EW but was curious if it exists and if it makes an appearance in GotL?

It does not exist on Katoki's version as seen in Endless Waltz but it does exist retroactively in Glory of the Losers. It gets wrecked during the final battle which is presumably meant to handwave why it's not in EW.

Sandrock Gundam
Sandrock has a blinding flash type weapon, I believe it's located in it's shield. Does this weapon function like the beam flash we see on the Dom series? Does it every show up in the animation, original manga or GotL?

We see it used in an early episode (10 IIRC) and it basically produces a bright burst of light to temporarily blind enemies.

Beam submachinegun does this exist on the Katoki design or show up anywhere like in GotL?

Yeah, it got retroactively added to the Katoki version in GotL as a weapon for the base Sandrock.

Original Deathscythe has a Hyper Jammer which is an ECM suite where it's somehow invisible to electronic sensors. This has no effect on visual since they can still see the MS via the main camera. Is there ever a range thrown out for this system in the kits? Doesn't have to be a number I'm just curious how close this system will let you get before it becomes detected.

I don't believe we're ever told what its effective range is but seeing how Duo was able to get inside a production plant and start tearing it to shreds before being spotted, I suspect the answer is 'really close'. Also, that every guard must have taken a coffee break at the same time to miss seeing the sixteen meter tall machine stomping around, even if their sensors couldn't pick it up.

Deathscythe Hell has improved jammers and also an Active Cloak that blocks optical/visual. I'm guessing this system can fool the main camera of a MS. The Active Cloak is only active when the 'wings' are down correct? I'm guessing its also power intensive and has a limited runtime.

Not sure if it's ever stated as such but since we don't see Duo attack, then use the active stealth again mid-battle to cloak and sneak up on another enemy, it's likely there's some limitation that prevents him from doing so. And totally not because it wouldn't be as visually spectacular as showing the giant robot scything things to bits via copious stock footage...

Another thing worth noting is that with the wings folded over the body it has beam-diffusing properties. This applies to both versions of the suit.

Heavy Arms Gundam
So the combat knife on the original model, does this exist on the Katoki design or show up anywhere like in GotL?

It's not part of the original Katoki design but it was added back for GotL like some of the other weapons.

Leo
I primarily remember Leo's using the rifle, dobergun and bazooka. I don't recall the shorty beam rifle unless that's the primary weapon for the space type Leos?

I recall seeing it a couple of times, though I couldn't tell you where off the top of my head.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Awesome!! Thank for you the responses. I'm glad to see a lot of the missing weapons were added back in to Glory of the Losers. I had paused around the antarctic duel so I'm looking forward to picking it back up in the future.

For Altron is there any stated reason as to why they didn't both repairing or reinstalling the stinger tail? I'm guessing they have enough resources to do so. Ranged weaponry doesn't seem like Wufei's preferred style of combat but he certainly used it quite a bit against the Virgo and Virgo II.

For Sandrock I had always wondered if the Flash was built into the blades somehow, I took a look at the Rhythm Emotion OP again and we see the shotels have a weird technicolor effect, but since the Flasher is in the shield I suppose that's just a fun animation quirk. It seems like a pretty useful system, I'm surprised Sandrock doesn't use it more often. Perhaps he doesn't need to since most of its opponents can barely scratch its heavy armor. Or perhaps it only has a few uses before needing to be resupplied.

For Deathscythe I knew the Hell version had an Anti-Beam effect but didn't realize it was on the basic Deathscythe as well. Or did you mean both versions of DS Hell (TV & EW)?

If I had to guess the active cloak works when the suit is in a low energy state, once it opens its mantle and moves into combat operations I'm guessing the reactor and other systems put up too much of a heat / EM / radiation signature to slip back into an undetectable state.

Y'know when I rewatched the series I thought for sure there'd be more stock footage, but it wasn't as bad I remembered. Perhaps that's because the stock footage was spread around 5 different suits so it doesn't get as tiring. I'm glad the gratuitous explosions were still enjoyable as I remembered

On a related note, Duo and Wufei received their mid season upgrades with the Altron and Deathscythe Hell. From what I could tell when they rebuilt Sandrock it was to original specs + beam submachinegun and Heavy Arms just got the 2nd Gatling. Were there any other field refits that made those two suits more responsive or more maneuverable? Well, aside from the standard modifications to be useable in space. I've been wondering about that since Deathscythe and Shenlong had such a hard time against any mobile dolls I was surprised when Heavy Arms and Sandrock didn't face the same issue, so I just assumed they got a tune up off screen.

[AGF-Antoine]

For Deathscythe I knew the Hell version had an Anti-Beam effect but didn't realize it was on the basic Deathscythe as well. Or did you mean both versions of DS Hell (TV & EW)?

I assume he meant both versions of Deathscythe Hell, considering the original doesn't have a cloak to begin with.

Y'know when I rewatched the series I thought for sure there'd be more stock footage, but it wasn't as bad I remembered. Perhaps that's because the stock footage was spread around 5 different suits so it doesn't get as tiring. I'm glad the gratuitous explosions were still enjoyable as I remembered

The stock footage use in Wing is pretty bad, only SEED Destiny is a worse offender IMO.
Especially the Leo explosion scene gets re-used all the time (hence the Cardboard Leo thing).

On a related note, Duo and Wufei received their mid season upgrades with the Altron and Deathscythe Hell. From what I could tell when they rebuilt Sandrock it was to original specs + beam submachinegun and Heavy Arms just got the 2nd Gatling. Were there any other field refits that made those two suits more responsive or more maneuverable? Well, aside from the standard modifications to be useable in space. I've been wondering about that since Deathscythe and Shenlong had such a hard time against any mobile dolls I was surprised when Heavy Arms and Sandrock didn't face the same issue, so I just assumed they got a tune up off screen.

While the upgrades happened off-screen, they were said to be done by Howard, onboard the Peacemillion.
They both got a different backpack, and verniers added all over the body.
Also, Sandrock Kai got the ZERO System installed.

[Arsarcana]

For Altron is there any stated reason as to why they didn't both repairing or reinstalling the stinger tail? I'm guessing they have enough resources to do so.

Like I said, its destruction is probably meant to handwave why it wasn't seen in Endless Waltz but it's not explained why they didn't repair it. Probably because the disarmament program that got started after the war made it a case of 'Why bother?' considering that the Gundams themselves were going to be destroyed at the time of EW. Not much point in repairing a weapon if you don't expect to need it.

For Deathscythe I knew the Hell version had an Anti-Beam effect but didn't realize it was on the basic Deathscythe as well. Or did you mean both versions of DS Hell (TV & EW)?

The latter, it's both versions of the Deathscythe Hell that I was referring ot.

I've been wondering about that since Deathscythe and Shenlong had such a hard time against any mobile dolls I was surprised when Heavy Arms and Sandrock didn't face the same issue, so I just assumed they got a tune up off screen.

As mentioned, they got offscreen tuneups by Howard that were mainly intended to let them operate effectively in space, which was the biggest issue that Duo and Wufei had to deal with earlier in the show; the additional fancy equipment those two rebuilds got was more like an added bonus.

In addition to the verniers, TV!Sandrock also got the beam machine gun to give it something to do while waiting to get into melee range, which fixed its most obvious deficiency.

[Kuruni]

It can't use cross crusher, however.

[Arsarcana]

And it used that how many times in the series? And it takes longer to crush an enemy with that thing than simply swiping them with one of the shotels would take which makes the thing cool looking but ultimately kinda pointless. Not much of a loss for TV!Sandrock really.

Oh, and since it's in the spirit of this topic the GotL version doesn't include the backpack as part of the Cross Crusher (the shotels attach directly to the shield and the blades can pivot around their hilts) so that version of the suit never loses that functionality.

[Kuruni]

Agree. Well, it does has effect when they adapt it to video game, but that's it.

In fact, there's this kick ass fan art showing TV Sanrock Kai crushing a Leo without cross crusher (albeit remind me more of Kamen Rider Gatack). Consider that Sandrock has highest raw strength, it's probably doable.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Awesome! Thank you all for these answers.

While the upgrades happened off-screen, they were said to be done by Howard, onboard the Peacemillion.
They both got a different backpack, and verniers added all over the body.
Also, Sandrock Kai got the ZERO System installed.

Oh interesting, I hadn't noticed the backpack change but when I look at the two pictures of Heavy Arms it looks pretty obvious even from the front.

I had forgotten Sandrock Kai got the ZERO system installed. I may have missed it but did it show up in EW during the ground battle against the Serpents? I'm looking forward to seeing how they showcase the ZERO system in GotL.

[AGF-Antoine]

Like I said, its destruction is probably meant to handwave why it wasn't seen in Endless Waltz but it's not explained why they didn't repair it. Probably because the disarmament program that got started after the war made it a case of 'Why bother?' considering that the Gundams themselves were going to be destroyed at the time of EW. Not much point in repairing a weapon if you don't expect to need it.

I thought of something else, an additional reason if you will.
Rebuilding it might actually have been impossible, considering the Gundam scientists died in the final battle.
And with them, the knowledge in creating the units also disappeared.
I do recall them giving the data on the upgrades to Wufei and Duo.
The extend of the data was never clarified, nor what the 70% complete meant (visually they seemed complete).

It might still be Wufei's philosophy, since he almost solely used the Stinger Tail against Mobile Dolls.
Meaning he would not need them anymore in a mostly disarmed world, as you said.
In EW the MS were initially solely symbolic anyways (hence the Serpent's solely wielding intimidating BFG's).

I had forgotten Sandrock Kai got the ZERO system installed. I may have missed it but did it show up in EW during the ground battle against the Serpents? I'm looking forward to seeing how they showcase the ZERO system in GotL.

It didn't appear on Sandrock Kai in Endless Waltz.
Quatre supposedly removed the system sometime before the final battle of the TV-series.

[PowerdGNFlag]

I was gonna make a thread about this, but seeing as my question falls under this topic (and has not yet been discussed), I might as well post it here.

What the hell is the thing with Wing Zero (TV)'s wing vulcans?

I haven't rewatched TV Wing for a while now, but I remember having the MSiA Wing Zero as a kid, and it had the wing vulcans (I don't have mine with me on hand, but they're like this). Fast-forward to today, and I'm building the MG Proto Zero, which does not have them (I remember reacting to it when it was first announced/shown, but totally forgot about it until now). This led me to look at lineart to see how I can integrate them (not the hardest mod for this case), and to my surprise, all of the original lineart that I can find does not have them! (see this from the Gundam Data Collection)

So I then tracked down where this first appeared in gunpla, and the first appearance I can find is in the 1/100 kit. (The manual for this is also the earliest source I can find that lists the Wing Vulcans among the WZ's weapons.)

This then carries on to the 1/60 kit, the SD GGEn kit (not the earlier BB Senshi kit which does not have it), and the MSiA as noted earlier. All this time data books have been listing the Wing Vulcans as part of the WZ's armaments despite being contradicted at times by the very lineart they use (see this entry from the 2003 MS Encyclopedia)

Then after a decade's absence from the merch scene (while the EW version gets the spotlight), the release of the MG Proto Zero "reverted" to the original state of not having the Wing Vulcans, and the release of the HGAC a year later followed the same trend.

EDIT: The newly-announced Metal Robot Spirits does not have them as well, as did the original Robot Spirits release. There is also the upcoming SD EX-Standard kit which omits them.

So what I'm trying to get at here is, did the Wing Zero's Wing Vulcans ever show up in the anime (let alone used), or were they a one-time gunpla gimmick that took on a life of its own?

[Underrated GM Custom]

I thought of something else, an additional reason if you will.
Rebuilding it might actually have been impossible, considering the Gundam scientists died in the final battle.
And with them, the knowledge in creating the units also disappeared.
I do recall them giving the data on the upgrades to Wufei and Duo.
The extend of the data was never clarified, nor what the 70% complete meant (visually they seemed complete).

That's a great point, perhaps the stinger tail couldn't be repaired with the Gundam scientists being gone. Or like you said it could be Wufei never preferred ranged weapons and only accepted them against Mobile Dolls.

I was gonna make a thread about this, but seeing as my question falls under this topic (and has not yet been discussed), I might as well post it here.

What the hell is the thing with Wing Zero (TV)'s wing vulcans?

Hey I'm glad the thread topic is useful! I took a look at some of the TV episodes since they're currently on GundamInfo's youtube channel. I couldn't recall any instance of the Wing Vulcans and it doesn't spend much time in Neo Bird Mode.

EP 24-25 Wing Zero destroys the colony and faces Mercurius and Vayate. No Neo Bird Mode.
EP 32 - Duel between Deathscythe and Wing Zero. No Neo Bird Mode.
EP 34 - Zechs steals Wing Zero. No Neo Bird Mode
EP 36 - Attack on the Sanc Kingdom. Neo Bird shows up briefly as Relena gives her speech.
EP 37 - Wing Zero & Epyon Duel. Neo Bird Mode when Wing Zero arrives but it transforms after Epyon engages.

Those are all the episodes I remember that may have had Neo Bird Mode. I don't remember it from the finale aside from the final episode.

[Arsarcana]

So what I'm trying to get at here is, did the Wing Zero's Wing Vulcans ever show up in the anime (let alone used), or were they a one-time gunpla gimmick that took on a life of its own?

I'm pretty sure that guns in the wing roots was just a kit gimmick, seeing how the HGAC Wing Zero makes a point of identifying the two ports in the shield as being the actual 'Wing Vulcans'. I don't know any book that shows the guns as seen on early model kids (though there are plenty I haven't read) but I do know that the 1/100 kits of that era frequently contained gimmicks that aren't found anywhere else. The 1/100 Wing and Shenlong featured beam effect parts for the wings and Dragon Fang respectively that don't match any other source, while the 1/100 Gundam X kits featured completely unique weapons like Airmaster Burst having a shotgun/missile launcher or Virsago having a pair of combining three-barrel beam guns.

[PowerdGNFlag]

Thanks for the first replies! Now that I'm not writing this up in the middle of work, I hope I can consolidate my sources a bit more here, and build a rough timeline.

For starters, I checked what the folks at JP Wikipedia say about this:

Wing Vulcan

A machine gun built into the tip of the wing's thruster base.
It is mainly used in Neo Bird Mode, and is powerful enough to shoot through the head of the Aries.
In later books and plastic model explanations, it is described as "built into both sides of the shield".

The first sentence has the 1/60 Wing Zero kit manual as a reference, with the added note that

Even for plastic model products released before the 1/60 scale kit, the description is confirmed in the specification table although the equipment location is unknown.

I confirmed this by noting that the 1/144 kit (released October 1995) and the 1/100 kit (released October 1995 as well) did mention the Wing Vulcans (and in the 1/100's case actually depicted it, but without identifying it as such) as part of the WZ's armaments.

The second sentence is pretty much just a translation of what was in the 1/60 Wing Zero manual referenced in the previous sentence.

It is the last sentence that brings the spice to the discussion. As Arsarcana noted, the HGAC Wing Zero manual says the following about the Shield:

Shield

A shield made of Gundanium alloy. It has an anti-beam coating, and is equipped with Wing Vulcans on both ends. When in Neo Bird Mode, it becomes the nose of the aircraft, and has excellent aerodynamic characteristics in the atmosphere, and also functions as an impulse angle during an assault.

Sure enough, the third sentence has it as a reference, as well as the hitherto-unseen reference book New Mobile Report Gundam Wing - MS Encyclopedia. The relevant section is seen here, and the text reads:

Wing Shield & Wing Vulcan

An anti-beam coating shield that can be used as an offensive weapon. It has a gimmick that allows the pointed tip to be extended, making it possible to pierce the armor of the MS. It is also equipped with a Vulcan that can be used in Neo Bird Mode.

Reference to the Wing Zero's shield pile bunker aside (incidentally another wonder from the Wing Zero's bag of tricks), this (coming from December 2007) may be the earliest reference we have (barring any earlier magazine/databook) that explicitly places the Wing Vulcans in the shield.

(For the record, MAHQ (and presumably Burke before it) has "2 x wing vulcan gun, mounted in wing binders" in the Wing Zero profile, and the old Gundam Project is silent about the vulcans' placement, though the Neo Bird Mode art just about suggests that Mark thought that they were in the wing binders as well.

Lastly (for now) let's go back to what started it all, the MG "Proto" Zero (released October 2013). While the manual is silent about the detail in question, it goes out of its way to have separate parts for the vulcan barrel on the shield, which I think is the single tiniest part in the entire kit, so we can safely assume where its loyalties lie.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Wow! That's a very extensive writeup. Thanks for sharing all of that.

I admit I had not heard of the wing vulcans until today so I was very curious if they existed on screen. I took another look at EP24 where we see the Shield ram used. At 19m13s there's a closeup of the Shield tip, you see two small barrel holes in the shield. Perhaps those are wing vulcans?

https://youtu.be/GO0np7Thvis?t=1153

[Mafty]

So why did the 90s Model Kit's have weapons that weren't seen elsewhere? Where they trying to sell more unique merchandise? Or were they using an early design of the Gundam that had different weapons?

[PowerdGNFlag]

Wow! That's a very extensive writeup. Thanks for sharing all of that.

I admit I had not heard of the wing vulcans until today so I was very curious if they existed on screen. I took another look at EP24 where we see the Shield ram used. At 19m13s there's a closeup of the Shield tip, you see two small barrel holes in the shield. Perhaps those are wing vulcans?

https://youtu.be/GO0np7Thvis?t=1153

If you're referring to this shot, I don't think so; what is usually claimed to be where the Wing Vulcans are is where the cursor arrow is in the pic.

So why did the 90s Model Kit's have weapons that weren't seen elsewhere? Where they trying to sell more unique merchandise? Or were they using an early design of the Gundam that had different weapons?

If I'll hazard a guess, I'd say that the smaller-than-normal Gundams of this period (for our purposes Wing and X) allowed Bandai to pack in more plastic in the kit while keeping costs roughly the same as if the Gundams were "normal"-sized. They can then chalk up the extra plastic as added play value (or repurposing what would have been extra parts from reused molds). Though for GX's case the extra weapons only really showed up for the upgrade Gundams (i.e Double X, Airmaster Burst and Leopard D) so the idea that these were designed with the intention to be shown onscreen but got shafted is also plausible.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Ah I see, thanks for pointing out the cursor I think I can tell where the vulcans are supposed to be. Guess it makes sense they'd be under the shield so they aren't damaged while the Shield is being used for its primary purpose.

I think with X it's very possible they had more variations or weapons planned for the show but since the show as cut short they had to hurry up and finish and not waste time animating nice to haves. I don't know when the kits came out but from design -> manufacturing there's a decent lead time so if the kits came our during the show those decision may have already been baked in before the decision was made to end the show early.

[DragoMaster009]

So what toy-only stuff came with the 90s model kits of the Gundam Wing and X shows?

[PowerdGNFlag]

So what toy-only stuff came with the 90s model kits of the Gundam Wing and X shows?

The Wing 1/100 kits (at least the first few) had extra "beam" effect parts, but more as a "whoosh" effect. (Think of it as a very early version of Bandai's current FigureRise Effect line.)
See: Wing, Shenlong, Deathscythe, Wing Zero, Epyon

For some reason, the last two releases in the line (Altron and Deathscythe H) did not get any new effect parts. (Altron did not even get any beam effect parts at all, resulting in its twin beam trident not having any beams to speak of)

As for the Gundam X HG 1/100 line, as previously mentioned, only the protag upgrade Gundams really got a lot in the way of extra weapons.

The Double X got the most new weapons (a full runner's worth!), including a Rocket Launcher Gun (with one extra round), a G-Hammer, a Beam Javelin and a Twin Beam Sword. It also included two racks that clip on the back skirt armor where you can put either the Rocket Launcher Gun (in pieces) or the latter three weapons. (Note that the Gundam Double X+G-Falcon release omits the runner with these extra weapons, so keep this in mind if you're intending to get them)

The Airmaster Burst got a new Missile Rifle, which to me just seemed like an excuse to save the missiles carried over from the original Airmaster kit from the discard pile.

Lastly the Leopard D, seeing that it's already packed with a lot of weapons just had enough spare space in its runners to squeeze in a new Heat Axe.