The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk II

[Geoxile]

Pretty sure that's only in the novel. In the OVA we run into the issue of Loni's family being dead for what is apparently quite some time. In the novel Loni's father built and operated the Shamblo but in the OVA Loni mentions her father and mother were killed in the hunt for Zeon remnants. I doubt the owner of a manufacturing corporation capable of producing a machine like the Shamblo would be so unprotected that the Feddies could track him down and execute him.

Garvey Enterprises isn't a manufacturing corporation. It's a solar power generation enterprise.

It was capable of manufacturing the Shamblo in the novel anyway apparently

Like I said, I said it was still the manufacturer of the Shamblo. I didn't deny your claim after you corrected mine. At any rate not sure why you're nitpicking on that, get over yourself.

[Deacon Blues]

Oh, funny how that works, huh? A nitpicker can't take nitpicking

[Thrawnma]

Thrawnma have more intention to somehow de-rationalize a fictional attack that clearly happened in the anime and was very, very mildly successful into being somehow impossible and thus somehow did not happen, and call everyone that might see why the attack was very, very mildly successful a twit rather than look at it from an objective point of view

To J-Lead or whomever, I'd appreciate it if you didn't read into my criticisms beyond anything more than what they were -- criticism of the writing. I already had such a scuff with Ceiling_Squid and we were able to reconcile privately but being called out like this after I had stopped participating for the most part is undue.

Something happening "in canon" and being stupid are not mutually exclusive. I'm a Star Wars fan, I have experience in editing personal canon due to poor choices from writers and production staff.

[J-Lead]

But that's the thing; it's...not really stupid as you seem to be portraying it as. I mean, I'll concede that I kind of wish the Federation was a bit more successful in their efforts at defending themselves, but at the same time, I don't see how them getting routed so effectively is implausible either, given the context of the scenario. It wasn't like a SEED gruntfest; Zeon kept the Federation on the defensive long enough to get some damage in and were immediately and thoroughly routed the second a talented pilot got a hold of a above average mobile suit.

As for the more technical issues, you really don't have a choice but to take it at face value, given the time constraints of the episode, and if you can't, then you'll be swimming upriver forever, because it's your word against the writer's, and up to this point the writers have done a fantastic job in terms of portraying the setting and MS combat. For whatever reason, the Zeon remnants had the resources and skill to do what they did, and given how lax the Federation has gotten as well as the implication that the leadership is corrupt enough to enable this buildup of resources, it's not really all that unlikely of a scenario. Trying to say that they shouldn't have been able to do what they did is kind of a pointless endeavor, since they obviously did. It's not like a WWII flick, where you can point out historical inaccuracies about the logistics issues in German supply lines in Russia or the feasibility of British Halftracks surviving against heavy small arms fire; it's a work of fiction featuring giant robots.

If you really want to continue the discussion (civilly) I'd be happy to do it over PM, since this thread's not really the place for it.

[Geoxile]

Oh, funny how that works, huh? A nitpicker can't take nitpicking

Considering where all the nitpicking and other irritants have gotten us thus far I'd rather everyone just chill.

[pd771]

I do find it kind of interesting after we saw a conflict where a rebel group filled with former military in Libya was basically intermingling old weapons supplied by the NATO and old tech like missile launchers they welded onto trucks fighting an actual military and succeeding (granted with overwhelming air support... like gunships) we can't suspend our disbelief that a bunch of remnants could hold out for 20 minutes before being annihilated.

[Geoxile]

Annihilated by a single ace. If a soldier did that in reality he would be significantly awarded. The Byalant basically turned the tide of the battle by itself considering it destroyed over half of the invading forces by itself, starting with a handful right off the bat. If the Byalant custom didn't launch it might have come down to the Jestas vs the remnants, considering the Zeeks were actively destroying hangars (like the one the Byalant was in).

And like you said, air support. On a modern battlefield infantry can't really challenge air support. On a UC battlefield MS are top dog.

[pd771]

Annihilated by a single ace. If a soldier did that in reality he would be significantly awarded. The Byalant basically turned the tide of the battle by itself considering it destroyed over half of the invading forces by itself, starting with a handful right off the bat. If the Byalant custom didn't launch it might have come down to the Jestas vs the remnants, considering the Zeeks were actively destroying hangars (like the one the Byalant was in).

And like you said, air support. On a modern battlefield infantry can't really challenge air support. On a UC battlefield MS are top dog.

The Zeon had dominant air support with their Sniper. It's really what let them do so well. I think the reason they did so well was their were no suits that had SFSs until the Jestas and the Delta Plus arrived. Zeon dominated the air which let them dominate the battlefield until reinforcements arrived. I think it shows air support is still important.

As for the Byarlant pilot, you're right. Of course, we don't know how he'll be rewarded. In universe, I'm guessing some medals. Out of universe, he's already become an ascended favorite. Just goes to show the gap in Gundam shows between an ace and a regular. How he owned the battlefield reminded me of Norris Packard.

[balofo]

MakubeX2

Based on what a model magazine mentioned, the rifle on the Banshee's right hand is derived from the technology of the Fin Funnel.

The only difference is that it is given a higher power output which is now equivalent to a beam launcher and is literally hard wired to the Banshee when attached instead of being remotely controlled mentally. It is also said to be a precursor to the V2 Assault mode's mega beam rifle

source on this?

[Geoxile]

The sniper situation actually had me scratching my head too. The later EFF that show up in the counter attack should know there is an active sniper, but never apply any maneuvers to avoid sniper fire. No less, firing from a perpendicular angle should be harder for the sniper if the targets were moving. The reason the byalant survived was simply because it was moving, not even because it was actively avoiding the sniper fire.

The gap between the ace and a regular in Gundam is absolutely ridiculous. Not even regarding newtypes. The Byalant was pulling ridiculous aerial maneuvers that neither EFF nor Zeeks would even think to do on earth. Makes me wonder what such a pilot was doing on Torrington.

[pd771]

I think part of the reason the Sniper was so effective was that he was out of the artillery's range and that he seemed to be connected to the Fat Uncle to have a limitless supply of energy. The Fat Uncle was modified to be a sniping platform and I don't think anyone had seen anything like that before. Sniper MS have always been ground units in UC so I'm sure they were shocked when someone was sniping from the air.

[Dark Duel]

Not from the air, but IIRC the GM Sniper II had a similar setup on the Big Tray.

[Zeonista]

Ah, things have been quite lively here since my last visit! And mostly dedicated to tackling the technical aspects of the battles, which is a sight better than before. I knew I could count on you guys to rise to the challenge! Damn, there are so many things I want to respond to, should have been back earlier but my computer is currently having a midlife crisis, to my detriment in both employment and entertainment matters. Oh well, catch as catch can....

On the continuing topic of "old ain't useless" it should be noted that in 1967 the IDF reserve armor regiments used upgraded Sherman tanks to take Jerusalem from the armored regiment of Jordan's Arab Legion, equipped with Patton tanks that had come off US assembly lines some 20 years after those same Shermans. So yeah, training, skill, and determination to use them and the available equipment to the utmost can make a difference on the sharp end.

You know, if some one had told me 20 years ago that someday Gundam fans would be praising the performance of a Byarlant and saying its pilot was cool, I would have laughed at them and dismissed the comment out of hand. And Oshii said Gundam Unicorn had nothing new to offer to the fans!

Homeless: The official site's comments on the MS are amusing, I'll warrant. No, I was not hired to write them! 'Cause I'd never have dissed the Nemo like that.

How are people hiding in caves and tunnels trying to simply keep from starvation on a planet where they never surrendered to the overwhelming military might that surrounds them going to get the ability to keep functioning machines, period?

The theory derping around this thread is that the Federation allows the Zeon remnants to exist so they can justify military expenditures. Which implies that the Federation could actually just go crush them if they wanted, and that the remnants don't represent any sort of threat to the Federation anyway.

Which, if true, is hilarious.

If the idea was true, then the jest would be too grim for me. It's one thing to want to stay up to par, but keeping a deadly enemy alive in order to buy a few new MS seems terribly cynical and counter-productive, considering all the death and destruction from 0080 to 0096. In place of that, I would submit that the EFF high command and their EUG civilian counterparts suffer from a chronic case of Robert McNamara Syndrome. To wit, they keep thinking that a numerical preponderance of equipment and personnel will guarantee eventual and (relative) easy victory. Then they take that numerical superiority and waste the easy-win potential by issuing ROE which short-leash the EFF field forces to geopolitical guard stations, and yield the strategic initiative in perpetuity to the enemy, be they Zeon or the successor Spacenoid factions. It also fails as a strategy to account for the Zeon position; Zeon commanders always accepted numerical inferiority as a given, and they depended on technology, training, and devotion to Zeonism to make up the difference.

Thrawnma: Your three points considering the ongoing existence of Zeon Remnants on Earth are good starting points for an EFF strategy review report. (One probably promptly ignored by its recipients. ) I can give you some answers for the questions posed by those points, but they deserve their own topic outside of this one.

Geoxile: Partisan cheering aside, the sorry performance of the EFF in Torrington was the inevitable result of getting caught by surprise. That alone guaranteed them a beating, regardless of MS force capability. Whoever decided the base didn't need to be on full alert status with a MA running loose ought to be transferred to an Alaskan weather station for the rest of their career. (Probably not gonna happen though.) Things improved as the attack developed and the pilots with the hawt MS got launched.

On a related note, that Byarlant pilot was a badass, proving that someone out in the ranks knows what he is doing. I am gonna have to find the magazine with his story in it to read now. If he was a Zeon pilot, he would have received a medal, a promotion, his own unit to lead, and a Zeonette snugglebunny to keep his morale up. SInce he is an EFF pilot, making ace in a day gets him....I dunno, "pilot of the month"?

J-Lead: Sorry guy, but if I can't make at least 1 historical reference in a topic like this I feel I have not done my best as a fan.

[latenlazy]

The sniper situation actually had me scratching my head too. The later EFF that show up in the counter attack should know there is an active sniper, but never apply any maneuvers to avoid sniper fire. No less, firing from a perpendicular angle should be harder for the sniper if the targets were moving. The reason the byalant survived was simply because it was moving, not even because it was actively avoiding the sniper fire.

The gap between the ace and a regular in Gundam is absolutely ridiculous. Not even regarding newtypes. The Byalant was pulling ridiculous aerial maneuvers that neither EFF nor Zeeks would even think to do on earth. Makes me wonder what such a pilot was doing on Torrington.

It's because all the units we see getting sniped at are busy fighting something else. I presume the Zaku Sniper was very successful at taking out assets that could have gotten in range of it. Furthermore, the Zaku Sniper probably didn't have to aim at too many moving targets. After all, it had already done a good job of preventing readiness and deployment. Even if it didn't take out all the hangars, the damage to the infrastructure and debris should have presented significant challenges to readying and arming what MS were still available. This is a common problem for the defence when bases get attacked.

Lopsided victories are not always because of piloting differences. The Byalant was just a very good match against older MS that could neither match its mobility or have sustained flight, much like how the Doms slaughtered that Nemo and Guncannon. It's also not like these differences don't exist in real life either.

A note on the nature of air support in US. I would think the reason why MS became so good at dominating air support was because minovsky particles neutralized guided weapons, thereby requiring air assets to get within visual range to make a kill. MS had the advantage because they were well armoured against guns that were used WVR. This would have completely changed after the Gryps conflict, as I suspect MS that had sustainable flight reintroduced air asset's superiority over ground assets. Of course, the limiting factor to this was cost. That said, the only thing that could have touched the Zaku Sniper at that altitude was either a high altitude flight capable MS (not many of those, best I can think of is the Asshimar), or airplanes. That's why the Zaku Sniper remained untouched unteam Team Jesta came along.

[VF5SS]

You know I'm quite sure myself what a "semi-sniper" or "semi-cannon" is supposed to be. I do know what a seme-sniper is. Lockon's a seme-sniper :3

[Homeless]

http://i.imgur.com/kb65X.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lSoOY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FC915.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pXBUH.jpg

Also, I guess the upcoming PS3 game is adding stuff?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/tfqwr.jpg/

[Geoxile]

Looks like some sort of super Delta Plus and maybe a rollout Sinanju? Actually, the white, rollout Sinanju seems to resemble the few pieces of "Sinanju Gundam" fan art that float around.

[Arsarcana]

It kinda does, insofar as you can make out anything of it in that scan. The newcomers are the Sinanju Stein (?) and the Gundam Delta Kai, which has Fin Funnels and some sort of 'Nitro' system that has to do with Newtype powers.

[flamingtroll]

Am I the only one has the urge to punch something everytime Katoki "designs" a variant with a german suffix? There is also some mentioning of Full Frontal's Gaera Doga in that picture at the end. The game is going to include the Sinanju theft scenario penned by Fukui. I guess the guy is milking all he can with unicorn . It's surprising all this stuff can happen without mentioning Nanai. Seriously even as an UC (not Unicorn) fan this is getting annoying. Delta Gundam Kai is a mess. I dont' want my UC gundams looking like Wing Zero ver Ka. Leave oversized shoulders in the AU please.

[Homeless]

http://i.imgur.com/nNg3F.jpg