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 Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Was the Dom Funf suppose replace the Ms-09 Dom/Rick Dom Perspectively in zeons war for independence or was it just a mobile suit built to late to change the tide i heard it was a versitile suit bulit for any terrain and also I heard and read sources that its Delaz personal suit. Eventhough he was the flagship commander during stardust why dont you think he could have sourtied a bit dozle did and he was the SAF commander. Delaz could at least try to shaken up the federation ranks with his fleet +and company from depicting the anime he was a ok commander in the chair instead of the cockpit But im just saying if you had have your own personal you should put it to good use. In my opinion its like the garma situation with his personal suits I think. Your opinions will be much appreciated.


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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:20 am 
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It's all three really.

Presumably, the Funf's versatility would have made it a successor to the ground-bound Dom and space-confined Rick Dom, which was the entire point of the Funf's modular construction. However, in spite of its vast potential, the Funf was introduced too late to affect the outcome of the war, just like the Gelgoog. Finally, Delaz may have had a Funf to his name, but that's never been confirmed as far as I know.

However, Delaz wasn't the Space Attack Force commander (or so I assume that's what you're trying to say). I've seen some compelling arguments made for Delaz as a member of one wing of Zeon's military over another, but we don't actually know his assignment.

Regardless of where he was assigned, it's clear he's more of a commander than a field leader. If the Funf was actually his, it was probably nothing more than a ceremonial piece. It's entirely possible he didn't know how to pilot a mobile suit. We never see him touch one, let alone pilot one.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:59 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Yea thanks for your input i know dozle was the space attack force commander but he actually sortied i was just comparing delaz to dozle for the simple fact that if he had his own personal suit i would have thought that delaz would have sortied or did front line inspection like dozle but he didnt since its not in any sources.In my opinion i consider delaz just a military commander under gihren during the one year war probaly on a equal level to admiral Tianem. I also think since delaz was a Strong follower to Gihren im thinking he also did dirty or special missions known to just gihren command like how colonel killings was with operation Rubicon.Another question is the funf depicted or seen any other time outside of the 0083 beginning


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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:48 pm 
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Master of Mecha

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During the One Year War, Delaz only held the rank of Captain - equal to Garma Zabi and M'Quve, and a little below characters like Rear Admiral Conscon, who challenged the White Base at Side 6. In this case, he probably wasn't a fleet commander, and captaining a Gwazine may have been a heavy enough responsibility to justify his rank.

The idea that the Dom in that hangar is Delaz's personal mobile suit comes from the 0083 novels, which were supervised by one of the anime series directors, so I think it's pretty plausible. Just as CJack90 says, a lot of Zeon commanders seemed to have maintained customized personal mobile suits as a kind of status symbol (M'Quve would be another example), but Dozle is one of the few cases where we know it was actually used in combat.

As for the background of the Dom Funf, here's what it says in the HG-UC kit manual:

Quote:
The design base for the Dom Tropen was the MS-09F Dom Funf, a machine that was independently developed by Zimmad following the announcement of the United Maintenance Plan at the end of the One Year War, with the goal of improving the specs of the Dom itself. Each component was thoroughly standardized and modularized, to make it capable of greater adaptive diversity than Zeonic's Zaku. Thus variations could be produced in response to demands from the front lines, and it appears that most of the units actually produced were of the so-called tropical type.

It's said that, at the end of the One Year War, a few units of the space combat version of the Dom Funf were also deployed to certain fleets. It is unclear how many were actually produced, or where they were deployed, but it is confirmed that one was aboard the Gwaden.


As far as other appearances, the space version of the Dom Funf has shown up in a couple of manga, notably Char's Deleted Affair. The Dom Bein Nichts and Dom Gross Beil from the G Generation series are supposedly based on the Funf, and there's also a Dom variant identified as the Dom Funf in the Zeonic Front game, although Zeonic Front depicted it as looking just like the standard Doms in 08th MS Team.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:12 pm 
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And even if the Dom Funf did end up being made more, it probably wouldn't have lasted too long (had the One Year War gone longer anyway) also because of the introduction of the Gelgoog, which is efficiently able to operate in various land conditions or in space (basically, very general purpose) without the need of any real heavy modifications whereas the Dom Funf, depending on the missions, would require several hours of reworking on armor, weapons, etc to fit the criteria. Even then, the Gelgoog already had several of its own variants worked on for such things. Also doesn't help that the Gelgoog had its own beam weapons while the Funf would still only have conventional weaponry outside of its non-damaging scattering beam gun unless Zimmad suddenly made big improvements to it.

The high performance of the Gelgoog is really the primary reason Zimmad made things like the Dom Bein Nichts and Dom Gross Beil and whatnot; to keep the Dom series competitive against the Gelgoog. It's primarily thanks to simply being produced longer that the Dom series is in such higher numbers than the Gelgoog series.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:23 pm 
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See, I don't know about that. The Dom and the Gelgoog are designed for completely different things, especially in their space-use models. The Dom is a fast-strike machine designed to kill warships, but sucks at anti-MS combat. The Gelgoog, except for the C-type backpack, is designed to kill mobile suits. So, really, the Gelgoog and the Dom compliment each other like the Gundam and Guncannon. One's a close-combat machine with moderate firepower, the other's a heavy-hitter that needs escorted. Classic fighter & bomber roles.

In this case, the Dom Funf's various models seem like something akin to a United Maintenance plan just for Doms; one basic frame able to be modified for different environments, so they no longer need to have separate production lines for land-use and space-use Doms, because they'll make that modification later, when it's determined where a particular MS will go. And if that MS is recalled to some other theatre where it's needed more, it can be modified for that place with relative ease.


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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:37 pm 
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The Rick Dom was initially meant to replace the Zaku II as their primary front-line MS, but then the Gelgoog came along and completely changed all that with their use of beam weapons.

The Gyan was supposed to be the thing to compliment the Rick Dom; the Gyan for MS combat and the Rick Doms for longer range bombardment, but the Gelgoog was selected over such a thing simply because it could accomplish both tasks efficiently by itself, especially with the likes of the Gelgoog Cannon for anti-ship combat while still being more than capable of anti-MS combat too. In the long-run, this also means it saves Zeon money by having 1 MS capable of different tasks, thus they can have 2 of the same MS type perform a different task (1 Gelgoog for close-range and another, like a Gelgoog Cannon, for longer-range), rather than having to make 2 completely different MS for that same task, but aside from that, would be a little helpless without the other to compliment it if they end up in such situations. This also helps keep production lines streamlined which also helps with cost.

The only thing the Dom Funf really has over the Rick Dom II is the fact that it meant to operate on land and in space whereas the Rick Dom II is only meant for space combat. Otherwise, the Dom Funf, especially when you consider it's one of Zimmad's independent projects, feels like more of an attempt of Zimmad to outshine Zeonic Company as those 2 companies seem to be the primary competitors throughout the One Year War. (MIP being fairly rare outside the Z'Gok series and some MA.)

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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 pm 
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But the Rick Dom was designed before the Federation had MS. Against a fleet-centric EFSF, the Rick Dom didn't need anti-MS abilities, while the Zaku was too general-purpose and frankly ill-designed for anti-ship warfare, probably because the Zeons didn't think it'd be good at that until the war started, and even then probably only the Nuclear Bazookas let them decimate Federation ships; certainly the Zakus were said to take horrible casualties during the first month of war when the EFSF was a force to be reckoned with.

The Gelgoog, and the Gyan, which were competitors of each other, were designed after the Zeons realized the Federation was going to have capable MS designs of its own, and after the Dom was in full production for both land and space. I don't think it was their beam weapons that made the Gelgoog & Gyan better at MS combat, it was the fact that they were designed with MS combat in mind, unlike the Zakus & Doms. Was either the Gelgoog or the Gyan supposed to replace the Rick Dom? The only Gelgoog which could actually replace the functions of any Rick Dom was the C-type, with its anti-ship scale cannon.


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 Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:50 pm 
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As said, the Gyan was made with complimenting the Rick Dom in mind.

The Gelgoog was meant to be the new front-line MS to replace the Zaku II, the role the Rick Dom was originally supposed to have. Also, other Gelgoog types ARE capable of wielding other heavy conventional weapons too, not solely beam rifles, so they're hardly not able to compete with the Rick Dom in terms of anti-ship combat outside the C-Type.

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 Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Thanks everyone for yall reply. The funf seems like a great suit but in my opinion but its hardy disscussed also i was depicting the original ms-09 from the movies,shows, games etc it seems that the dom wasnt a great defensive suit but just a big ass offensive platform that did bazooka strikes like a bomber which majority of yall were saying.Could the funf could have at least increased a dom defensive capabilties also Mark i found another source were the funf was located its not a official source and the depiction of the funf isnt the same as the 0083 design i dusted off zeonic front from the game shelf and one of the pilots Lt. Fran I think thats her name piloted this particular mobile suit.Anime games dont really live up to the actually design but its just a orginal dom with a baige and olive green color scheme and carried mostly all the zeon weapons during the u.c. canon and non canon except the beam rifle and it wasnt that versitle i get shot down with tank and gms with machine guns with ease even with manuvering lol


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 Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:15 pm 
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I already mentioned the so-called "Dom Funf" in Zeonic Front.

As far as the Dom vs Gelgoog comparison, since the Gelgoog has a similar thruster setup (including hovering features, as we see in Gundam ZZ) and can carry a bazooka, it could probably do anything a Dom could do. That makes it a much more versatile machine; you could probably think of the Gelgoog as combining the main features of the Dom and Gyan, plus ranged beam weapons, thus rendering both machines redundant.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:32 pm 
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I dunno...while the Gelgoog definitely seems to be capable of it to some degree, it doesn't seem as if it was as specialized for hovering as the Dom was. Pretty much any material that features Gelgoogs on the ground aside from ZZ have the Gelgoog walking, boosting, or jumping everywhere. Because of that, I always attributed the hovering feature seen in ZZ Gundam as a possible field upgrade to the Gelgoog rather than something it was capable of from the beginning. Add in the fact that the particular encounter in question happens in the desert, and it's very probable that the Gelgoog underwent some heavy field modifications to help it achieve optimum performance in that environment.

Then again, we don't exactly have a lot of footage of Gelgoogs in Earth's gravity animation-wise, so meh.

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 Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Well, we do have things like the Gouf Flight Types simply being used as hovering MS rather than full flight as intended simply because they have very powerful thruster power.

So while they may or may not be specifically "hovering thrusters" like the Dom was, it gets the purpose done all the same it looks like.

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 Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:05 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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yea sorry about that mark i had totally forgot you had added that zeoic front source another thing does the funf have hand plugs to equip beam weaponry as i see the dom in other sources has the beam bazooka..


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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:00 am 
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As far as I know, it's only able to use conventional weaponry like other Doms/Rick Doms.

The only beam bazooka-equipped (Rick) Dom I ever heard of was Anavel Gato's custom Rick Dom which, last I saw, isn't canon.

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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:35 am 
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Didn't the guy who killed Amuro in the novels use a beam bazooka-equipped Dom?
(Not canon either AFAIK, but still)

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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:54 pm 
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IIRC the beam bazooka used by Rickdom has its own reactor. It may be possible for other older MSs to use it too if they can handle its size.

In ZZ while the blue Gelgoog may have been upgraded, I doubt the red one is upgraded at all. It still has the old style cockpit.

I had discussed about Rickdom's close combat ability before and based on the movie Rickdom seems to do ok when not up against Amuro.


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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Dark Duel wrote:
Didn't the guy who killed Amuro in the novels use a beam bazooka-equipped Dom?
(Not canon either AFAIK, but still)

only in the novel does the Rick-dom use beam weapons. generally the dom only has the beam gun in its chest and only uses normal handheld arms.

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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:12 pm 
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Dark Duel wrote:
Didn't the guy who killed Amuro in the novels use a beam bazooka-equipped Dom?
(Not canon either AFAIK, but still)


Yes, but the beam bazooka is the standard weapon of the Rick Dom in the novels, so those Rick Dom's are clearly different from the anime ones.

domtropen wrote:
IIRC the beam bazooka used by Rickdom has its own reactor. It may be possible for other older MSs to use it too if they can handle its size.

In ZZ while the blue Gelgoog may have been upgraded, I doubt the red one is upgraded at all. It still has the old style cockpit.


Yeah, I've also heard that the infamous Zeon beam bazooka has its own reactor that either provides most of, if not all, of its power, which is why the Rick Dom, which otherwise can't use beam weapons, is able to use it.

As for the ZZ thing, Masai's red Gelgoog isn't upgraded, because as you point out, it still has an old style cockpit. Every other older MS design we see were presumably built after the OYW by the Federation, which is why they have modern cockpits (And many have beam weapons).

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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:43 pm 
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It could be possible that they were custom refit jobs too. It would seem a bit pointless for Axis/Neo Zeon to make completely new Zaku IIs with the panoramic/linear-seat cockpit...

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