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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:37 pm 
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1. We've established that the Deathscythe Hell Customs beam scissors are supposed to be two beam blades right next to each other (a la scissor). However, looking at the Deathscythe (ver Ka), the regular version that Katoki redesigned, it looks like they both use the same scythe. Are there any differences between the two's weapons? or is it actually a downgrade (having the same scythe, losing the buster shield).

2. Whats the difference between the Sandrock ver Ka. and the Sandrock Custom (other than the paintjob)? Is it just the anti beam cloak?


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Xiphas wrote:
1. We've established that the Deathscythe Hell Customs beam scissors are supposed to be two beam blades right next to each other (a la scissor). However, looking at the Deathscythe (ver Ka), the regular version that Katoki redesigned, it looks like they both use the same scythe. Are there any differences between the two's weapons? or is it actually a downgrade (having the same scythe, losing the buster shield).


They do indeed use the same scythe. To be honest, the double scythe was silly and redundant from the beginning, and the giant wings that doubled as shields made the buster shield kind of redundant as well (throwing aside the fact that it launches off and impales a target...Why didn't they just make an arm mounted beam cannon or something?)

To be honest, I think Deathscythe Hell EW version is supposed to take out all the silly, impractical aspects that were present in Okawara's version, and instead focus on what the Deathscythe was best at; using stealth and speed to close in fast on a group of targets and eviscerate them.

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2. Whats the difference between the Sandrock ver Ka. and the Sandrock Custom (other than the paintjob)? Is it just the anti beam cloak?


So far as I know, the only difference is that the Sandrock Custom can be used much more effectively in space. Also both designs could use that cloak, if the Glory of the Defeated manga is any indication.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Frankly, the 'Beam Scissors' thing always sounded like a name they picked because it sounded cool despite it looking exactly like a scythe, with one blade, no room for a second emitter and recently the Deathscythe Ver Ka/EW calling the exact same weapon the Beam Scythe. And yeah, Katoki's rendition of the DSH always struck me as a case of taking away the excessively gimmicky bits and focusing on making the thing live up to its name. He made up for this by adding even more gimmicky wings for WZ but whatever.

As for Sandrock... paintjob, different shields (according to B-Club) which I recently found out about and if the latest issue showing Heavyarms with new gear is any indication there may be more differences that the manga will introduce as things go on.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:02 pm 
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1) There seems to be a little confusion here. Deathscythe Hell (EW) does not have two beam blades in its scythe, and never did; that was exclusive to the TV version. The whole point of the EW beam scissors is simply that it's a high-output beam blade, like comparing a standard beam saber to the Double X's beam sword.

2) There isn't a whole lot of difference between any of the Ver.Ka originals and the upgrades, mainly because the "Early Types" were an afterthought, an extra made for the LD release of the movie. Presumably Sandrock (like its TV counterpart) received extra thrusters to allow it to function in space.

Really though, we don't know a whole lot about the functionality of the "Early Types" simply because up until Glory of the Defeated, they were just designs on paper. Even then, there are some changes, such as how for GotD, Katoki added thrusters to Deathscythe's buster shield so it can function just like its TV equivalent rather than just being a beam katar/claw.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Quote:
1) There seems to be a little confusion here. Deathscythe Hell (EW) does not have two beam blades in its scythe, and never did; that was exclusive to the TV version. The whole point of the EW beam scissors is simply that it's a high-output beam blade, like comparing a standard beam saber to the Double X's beam sword.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading before on this forum that the Deathscythe Hell EW's scythe is called the beam scissors because the scythe beam itself is composed of two beam emitters placed next to each other horizontally (parallel) to project a stronger beam. I think it was from the Japanese Gundam Wiki that this was cited.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:57 pm 
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In a more general sense, the Endless Waltz versions of the Gundams also felt a bit more "balanced" as opposed to their anime series counterparts, which made them seem nigh-invincible and all.

In-depth, Altron also ended up having its Stinger Tail beam cannons and flamethrowers taken out, leaving only the twin beam trident and GREATLY extending the length and flexibility of the dragon fangs themselves.

Heavyarms also axed out beam weapons entirely (the anime having its large gatling gun a beam gatling each time), making all of its weapons shell-firing and conventional (off-setting it by adding in another pair of large gatling guns) and also axing out its last resort combat knife too.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:17 am 
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HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
In a more general sense, the Endless Waltz versions of the Gundams also felt a bit more "balanced" as opposed to their anime series counterparts, which made them seem nigh-invincible and all.


"If we were fighting to kill, we'd have been done long ago." -Quatre

They only seemed balanced because they were trying to prevent casualties that they would have otherwise cleaned out in about a half hour. So the Gundams were more or less the same during Endless Waltz, except they weren't being used as indiscriminate killers this time around.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
Heavyarms also axed out beam weapons entirely (the anime having its large gatling gun a beam gatling each time), making all of its weapons shell-firing and conventional (off-setting it by adding in another pair of large gatling guns) and also axing out its last resort combat knife too.


That's what I love about the Katoki'd Heavyarms. I always thought beam weaponry was used a little too widely. Conventional weaponry's more my thing. Makes situations more interesting.


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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:24 am 
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I also say so because they seemed to get damaged far more easily than the anime, especially with Sandrock's blades breaking of all things.

And Wing Gundam Zero all but destroying itself because of the damage it took from Altron when firing its twin buster rifle, yet nothing of the sort even looked like it was near happening at the end of Wing (even in the prologue for Endless Waltz) after all the damage it took from fighting Epyon AND all the ever-rising damage from plunging through the atmosphere with no protection at all (at least it used its wings the 2nd time when fighting Altron). The Serpent fire certainly didn't look like it was adding any significant damage as the bullets we DO see hit it pretty much get deflected by the armor.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:56 am 
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As upcoming MG showed us, Shenlong ver.EW does have flamethrower but unable to extend its dragon fang. Trading flamethrower with extended range and another dragon fang is a good decision for Altron IMO. One thing I dislike from Shenlong EW is the trident that replaced naginata of Shenlong TV. I think naginata suits Shenlong much better. I like trident only when it's double ended.

About DSH ver EW, I find it strange that the cloak doesn't cover the chest and cockpit area like its TV counterpart. Any explanation on that?

J-Lead wrote:
To be honest, the double scythe was silly and redundant from the beginning


Okawara probably get his inspiration from twin-bladed shaving razor :P

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:59 am 
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Xiphas wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading before on this forum that the Deathscythe Hell EW's scythe is called the beam scissors because the scythe beam itself is composed of two beam emitters placed next to each other horizontally (parallel) to project a stronger beam. I think it was from the Japanese Gundam Wiki that this was cited.


I've never heard anything to this effect before. Even if it is true, the name is still nonsensical, because rather than producing two blades that come together, it produces a single gigantic blade; come to that, "scissors" would be a better name for the TV version's scythe.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:11 am 
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HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
And Wing Gundam Zero all but destroying itself because of the damage it took from Altron when firing its twin buster rifle, yet nothing of the sort even looked like it was near happening at the end of Wing (even in the prologue for Endless Waltz) after all the damage it took from fighting Epyon AND all the ever-rising damage from plunging through the atmosphere with no protection at all (at least it used its wings the 2nd time when fighting Altron). The Serpent fire certainly didn't look like it was adding any significant damage as the bullets we DO see hit it pretty much get deflected by the armor.

Personally, I believe that the single most damaging thing to happen to Wing Zero in that whole fight with Altron was falling into the ocean. Remember back in episode 1 of the TV series when Wing Gundam did the same. It was very messed up internally and had to have most of its parts replaced (Thank you, Duo). When added onto the battle damage before, Wing Zero had to have been close to that bad a shape when it was taking aim at the bunker. The recoil from the full power TBR shots was just the final straw that broke the gundanium camel's back and tore the seriously worn internals apart, causing the Gundam to fall to pieces.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:42 pm 
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Some more questions, cause I'm on a Wing phase atm (reliving my childhood lol).

1) What are the official names for the Endless Waltz units? (as in the official current Bandai names, just wanna make it clear) Let's say for Wing Zero, is it Wing Zero Custom, Wing Zero (OVA ver.), or Wing Zero (EW ver.)? For Wufei's Gundam, is it Nataku Custom, Gundam Nataku, or Altron (OVA/EW Version)? And even for the Serpent, is it actually Serpent Custom?

2) Is the Tallgeese's dobergun a beam weapon? I've always thought it was a high velocity shell firing gun (like a super tank cannon). But I encounted a scene in the anime (ep 17 or 18) where the blast from the dobergun takes out 3 Aries at the same time. So just wondering.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Xiphas wrote:
Some more questions, cause I'm on a Wing phase atm (reliving my childhood lol).

1) What are the official names for the Endless Waltz units? (as in the official current Bandai names, just wanna make it clear) Let's say for Wing Zero, is it Wing Zero Custom, Wing Zero (OVA ver.), or Wing Zero (EW ver.)? For Wufei's Gundam, is it Nataku Custom, Gundam Nataku, or Altron (OVA/EW Version)? And even for the Serpent, is it actually Serpent Custom?
(Name of the Gundam) Custom seems to be the most widely used among fans that I've seen, and was used on US (and I think Japan) model kit boxes. That seems about as official as one would get for that. Also Serpent Custom was only on the US model kit boxes and is not official. IIRC it was only done that way to match the others. Nataku is also not an official name in any capacity. Altron Custom would be the appropriate term as Nataku can refer to both Shenlong and Altron as the nickname Wufei gives the Gundam.

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2) Is the Tallgeese's dobergun a beam weapon? I've always thought it was a high velocity shell firing gun (like a super tank cannon). But I encounted a scene in the anime (ep 17 or 18) where the blast from the dobergun takes out 3 Aries at the same time. So just wondering.
Ah, the beam or shell question. Technically it's supposed to be a shell firing weapon and in most cases is shown as such, however there are times (most notable with the Tallgeese II) where it behaves like a beam gun. I don't know for sure if we can chalk it up to confusion among the animators for not knowing what a dobergun was supposed to be or not.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Quote:
1) What are the official names for the Endless Waltz units? (as in the official current Bandai names, just wanna make it clear) Let's say for Wing Zero, is it Wing Zero Custom, Wing Zero (OVA ver.), or Wing Zero (EW ver.)? For Wufei's Gundam, is it Nataku Custom, Gundam Nataku, or Altron (OVA/EW Version)? And even for the Serpent, is it actually Serpent Custom?


The latest official names, if we are to follow Master Grade kits, seem to be just "Wing Gundam Zero" or "Gundam Deathscythe Hell," they dropped the 'custom' part since they released the MG Wing Zero in 2004. However when the Deathscythe and Deathscythe Hell Master Grades came out the magazines seem to have tacked "ver. EW" onto their names.

Bandai is close to releasing Shenlong (ver EW) and time will tell if they release a new Nataku MG, and if they'll still call it Nataku or just "Altron" Ver. EW. As for Serpent "Custom" I think only the 1/144 HG and 1/100 HG boxarts called it that...

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Keep in mind that those names are just out-of-universe to help tell one toy apart from another. In-universe, the names never change and the Gundams are still called Wing Gundam Zero and Heavyarms Kai (And so on and so forth) like they were in the TV series.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Wingnut wrote:
Xiphas wrote:
Quote:
2) Is the Tallgeese's dobergun a beam weapon? I've always thought it was a high velocity shell firing gun (like a super tank cannon). But I encounted a scene in the anime (ep 17 or 18) where the blast from the dobergun takes out 3 Aries at the same time. So just wondering.
Ah, the beam or shell question. Technically it's supposed to be a shell firing weapon and in most cases is shown as such, however there are times (most notable with the Tallgeese II) where it behaves like a beam gun. I don't know for sure if we can chalk it up to confusion among the animators for not knowing what a dobergun was supposed to be or not.


Yeah, I tend to chalk up to a similar situation as with the GP02A's atomic bazooka firing out what looked like a gigantic, ever-widening beam rather than a nuclear warhead in 0083.

Or it's more of a tactic to make it look cooler or something.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:45 am 
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A few of my own questions

1. Doesn't Heavyarms Kai (EW) use beam weapons? I find it hard to find where it could possibly store the ammo for all of those gatlings. I know there's a scene in EW with shells falling but maybe those are spent energy-capacitor shells?

2. How does Sandrock Kai (EW) grab its heat shotels from its back? They are very wierdly placed.

3. Does the Deathscythe Hell's (EW) active cloak still act as a shield? I've never seen it fold around the Gundam like the TV version did. Additionally, it's seen flying when it enters the battle, is this a function of bat-like wings or just the usual flying that all of the Gundams can do (ie via thrust)? Can the EW Deathscythe Hell still turn invisible?


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:36 am 
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domino wrote:
A few of my own questions

1. Doesn't Heavyarms Kai (EW) use beam weapons? I find it hard to find where it could possibly store the ammo for all of those gatlings. I know there's a scene in EW with shells falling but maybe those are spent energy-capacitor shells?


As said above, it doesn't seem to be using beam weapons anymore. As for where the ammo may be stored, take a look at the (grey/green?) drums that are placed behind the barrels, on both sides of the handgrip. They seem large enough to house bullets don't they?

domino wrote:
2. How does Sandrock Kai (EW) grab its heat shotels from its back? They are very wierdly placed.


That's what I've been wondering too, but then I found this. Still trying to figure it out though.


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:16 am 
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Amadi Akintunde wrote:
domino wrote:
2. How does Sandrock Kai (EW) grab its heat shotels from its back? They are very wierdly placed.


That's what I've been wondering too, but then I found this. Still trying to figure it out though.

SRW W and L give a possible answer to that one. The handles on the shotels flip up and out for Sandrock to grab onto when Quatre wants to use them.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:35 am 
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Wingnut wrote:
Amadi Akintunde wrote:
domino wrote:
2. How does Sandrock Kai (EW) grab its heat shotels from its back? They are very wierdly placed.


That's what I've been wondering too, but then I found this. Still trying to figure it out though.

SRW W and L give a possible answer to that one. The handles on the shotels flip up and out for Sandrock to grab onto when Quatre wants to use them.


Huh. That's what I thought. But I couldn't word it properly myself.

Too early


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