Have any real robot series explained their control schemes?

[Nasuradin]

I realize that this is a common topic, but seriously- have they?

It seems like they rely on something patently ridiculous (a steering wheel for fencing in G Gundam, although I wouldn't expect realism from that), something that looks complex but could not possibly function well enough to provide the delicate and coordinated motions involved in melee combat (every Gundam series), or they are barely shown at all.

Am I missing some show where the canon is that the visible joysticks are just to help the pilot choose commands from some kind of on-board movement computer or neural interface, or, as I suspect, is every real robot show just really, really lazy about details?

[Izayuukan]

Well, of course there's the initial laziness combined with "we don't have time to properly explain this but we'll throw it in there anyway" syndrome. Usually this means that the explanations have to be invented after the show has aired.

But really, even if Mobile Suits and other Real Robots have operating systems which have pre-programmed response options, as you've pointed that doesn't explain why we almost never see the pilot keying them in. Somehow the MS knows to do a backflip and then cut the legs off of an enemy all by itself.

While we are on this subject, let me just say that Gasaraki and especially FLAG are two Real Robot shows that actually explain in the show itself how the pilot and the machine work together. If you are annoyed at how unlike real machines most Real Robots are, then look no further for a refreshing alternative.

[Kuruni]

Not strictly RR, but SRW OGs booklet actually including long article explaning control system of Personal Trooper's TC-OS and Armored Module's LIEON control system. Basically, the former mimic pre-programed motion data while latter is simple semi-automate system. LIEON is easier to use (it was mention that any fighter pilot can adapt to Lion with ease) but more limited.

[Areku]

Given that we're already talking about gigantic humanoid robots that don't disintegrate under their own weight, is it really that difficult to accept that, decades from now, the big, expensive robots have a computer that allows them to perform complex movements without ridiculously in-depth inputs from the pilot? If fighter planes today read pilot inputs as mere suggestions, is it that big a stretch to believe that mecha can coordinate themselves well enough to execute the complicated maneuvers we see based on suggestions from the pilot? If you ask me, if there's anything that SEED portrayed well, it's that much of the combat capability of a machine determined by the quality of its operating system and programming.

[AmuroNT1]

The Gundam Wing series bibles show details on the Gundams' cockpits and the functions of every single button and lever inside. Unfortunately, the quality of the handwriting combined with my own low level of Japanese comprehension means I don't know understand most of it.

Control Sticks: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5484 ... argym1.jpg

Monitor Display: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9897 ... larlt4.jpg

[Geoxile]

In Gundam Amuro mentions that the learning computer takes care of the complicated mechanics such as movement. So I would assume that he simply directs it and pew pew.

I'm sure earlier suits also had preprogrammed instruction sets. Look at the ground Gundam. Its processing unit IIRC was a series of processing racks like a super computer when the Gouf Custom fried the computer.

As for later suits, the controls change and I would assume they keep the level of autonomy of the MS computer to some degree. CCA showed the ball and multi-buttoned throttle as does Unicorn with the Stark Jegan plus control panels. They look much more complicated than the first controls in MSG.

Also, NT amplifying machines aiding in controls probably for certain machines like Nu and Sazabi. In the case of the Psycos they were able to react directly to their designated cyber NT pilots.

[mcred23]

As for later suits, the controls change and I would assume they keep the level of autonomy of the MS computer to some degree. CCA showed the ball and multi-buttoned throttle as does Unicorn with the Stark Jegan plus control panels. They look much more complicated than the first controls in MSG.

The ball control stick design, official called arm rakers, aren't really more complicated. IIRC, they're intended to actually be easier to control, with all the thruster controls and everything mounted on them rather than being more spread out across the control panels. However, as mentioned in this thread, pilots found them hard to hold on to, and by Unicorn the Federation had already switched back to conventional joystick controls. So really, controls don't change all that much in the Universal Century.

[Amadi Akintunde]

The Gundam Wing series bibles show details on the Gundams' cockpits and the functions of every single button and lever inside. Unfortunately, the quality of the handwriting combined with my own low level of Japanese comprehension means I don't know understand most of it.

Control Sticks: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5484 ... argym1.jpg

Monitor Display: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9897 ... larlt4.jpg

There any more of those? I did not know this existed at all.

[yazi88]

In Patlabor they really explain how their control schemes are thanks to the movement disks and preprogrammed data to respond to each pilots pattern. This kinda stuff comes up a lot in this show and it doesn't go overboard like say Gasaraki with overwhelming tech data and stuff but explain it in simpler yet straight to the point terms.

[AnimeMun]

Ok, if you pay attention to most of the post First Gundam series most of them show a series of buttons on the joysticks and a support console. The RX-78-2 the Guncannon and the guntank all had similar cockpits save for the gunner's seat. You even see in the first episode that there are a series of keyboards meant for support systems and pedals for lift much like any aircraft.

Later on with the GMs and the Ground Gundams this concept is simplified to the multi buttoned mechanics we see now not to mention the scope that comes out when any of the pilots are doing more precise aiming. Also lets not forget the overly simplified Gundam arcade pods that are in Tokyo now a days, thats the closest we'll get to that type of RR control in the next decade. Its actually not too hard to think about though. What are mobile suit limbs other than a complex chain of pneumatics wiring and hoses meant to move and direct energy? Not quite unlike the tendons and muscles in your own limbs. The buttons and levers in the cockpit are nothing more than pulley control systems for these movements. So if you know exactly how you need to move to do complex acrobatics and know intimately how those muscles work you can figure it out with the pneumatics in the MS with or without the vernier. ESPECIALLY if you are doing these in zero-G environments like several of the MS do.

Its not that far-fetched, besides would you WANT to watch what controls they are pushing during combat? No, that would be boring so they don't need to show us. Although they do show us when it is important. Like say, and I hate that I'm even thinking this, the beginning of SEED where we see Kira programming the Strike to do his commands.

[Dark Duel]

Or, more recently, when we see the Stark Jegan's pilot press a series of buttons on his controls to fire his machine's missiles.

[Amadi Akintunde]

I guess what most of us would like is a clear, concise guide to properly piloting mobile suits; preferably taking place in each Universe.

[Wingnut]

I guess what most of us would like is a clear, concise guide to properly piloting mobile suits; preferably taking place in each Universe.

G Gundam: Put on MTS, punch, kick, voice command, use virtual hand weapon like the real thing.

That takes care of that one.

[Newtype87]

I guess what most of us would like is a clear, concise guide to properly piloting mobile suits; preferably taking place in each Universe.

G Gundam: Put on MTS, punch, kick, voice command, use virtual hand weapon like the real thing.

That takes care of that one.

Don't forget "Pose strangely to fly."

[AnimeMun]

I guess what most of us would like is a clear, concise guide to properly piloting mobile suits; preferably taking place in each Universe.

G Gundam: Put on MTS, punch, kick, voice command, use virtual hand weapon like the real thing.

That takes care of that one.

Don't forget "Pose strangely to fly."

Although now with the Kinect technology Mobile Trace may be obsolete. but yeah, you have to look nigh constipated for flight.

As for "simple" guides to piloting an MS. MS aren't supposed to be extremely simple to pilot. Which is why so many are surprised when certain teens can just jump into the cockpit and do it. If you want to come up with something on that, try to find all the cockpit scenes in the assorted series and watch closely and you'll see certain actions do coincide with eachother. Push both sticks forward equals go forward. You can take from that what turns are and reverse is. Speed and all that I'm sure also coincides with the pedal presses and there are certain "power glove" computer peripherals and joysticks that have equivalent control standards you can look at.

[mcred23]

I guess what most of us would like is a clear, concise guide to properly piloting mobile suits; preferably taking place in each Universe.

The closest thing you'll get for the Universal Century is the infamous Gelgoog Jäger manual, which I'll copy and paste here because I can.

Here's the summary I typed up based on the pilot's manual in Entertainment Bible 1.


MS PILOT MANUAL
Paraphrased from "Entertainment Bible 1: MS Encylopedia, One Year War Edition"


1. Console Explanation

An introduction establishes that, yes, this is the cockpit of the Gelgoog Jaeger. The images on the four main monitors are derived from the 12 cameras distributed around the mobile suit's body, to present the external world as if you were sitting in its head. (You're warned not to forget to protect the torso, where you're actually sitting.)

The communications monitor on the top console is used to communicate with the deck crew and operators aboard your carrier ship. Thanks to Minovsky interference, you can only get visuals over short distances; after that, it's voice only. Although there's a dedicated rear-view display, you'll get an automatic verbal warning if an enemy gets behind you, and you can then use the controls on the left console to put the rear-view image up on the main monitor.

Most of the mobile suit's critical functions are handled by the control sticks and foot pedals. The sticks control the flight direction, and also house the trigger and weapon selector, while the foot pedals provide throttle and braking functions. Even in combat, most of the mobile suit's functions are computer-controlled; as a result, even a grade-schooler could operate it.


Panel and Console Diagram

A diagram calls out the major controls in the mobile suit cockpit. The diagram is based on the latter-model Zeon cockpit used in Gundam 0080 (and the manual as a whole uses the Gelgoog Jaeger as its example mobile suit). The cockpit consists of a seat and four monitor panels - front, top, left, and right. The front and top monitors sport small control consoles, and the other instruments are built into the seat or its side consoles.

The top monitor console includes two smaller screens - a rear-view monitor and a communications monitor (on the left and right sides respectively). In between are a set of sensor mode selectors.

The front monitor console bears, left to right, generator starter switches; a threat warning panel; and monitor toggle switches.

The left and right armrests of the seat sport almost identical controls. Each side has a sliding control stick - I think the right is for weapons, and the left for steering, but there may be some functional overlap - plus a row of ten buttons for manually activating the apogee motors. The left armrest also sports a throttle lever, which seems to function something like a gear shift for the thrusters. Additional side consoles are attached to the armrests; these contain controls for communications and external monitor modes (on the left), drive/fuel system mode selectors, and warning monitors (on the right). A mysterious "index sub-console" dangles off the right console.

Finally, there are the two foot pedals - brake on the left, throttle on the right. The throttle pedal functions like a car's accelerator. (Note that the upper limit of your thruster output is governed by the throttle lever on the left armrest.)


2. Launch Sequence

When you enter the cockpit, first buckle up your seatbelt! Then turn on the generator (via the front console), check the warning monitors (on the right console), and use the monitor toggles (front console again) to switch to systems check mode. If anything's wrong, holler for the deck crew.

Now you're ready to get on the catapult. Set the drive system mode to "walk" (via the right console) and proceed to the catapult as per your operator's directions, picking up your weapons on the way. Use the throttle pedal to walk forward, the control sticks to turn, and the brake pedal to stop. (I think you're meant to keep the brake pedal down until you're ready to launch.)

Once you're on the catapult, it's time to warm up your thrusters. First set the drive/fuel system mode to "catapult shoot" (right console again), then release the lock on the throttle lever (left armrest) and slide it into "idling" position. Check the warning monitors again, and set the throttle lever to "taxi-ing" position. (This lets you use your thrusters to pick up a little extra speed during launch.)

When your operator gives you the signal, you're clear to launch. Just release the brake pedal, and you'll be shot into space. Using your thrusters as little as possible (to conserve propellant), join your teammates in formation. You can use the index sub-console (attached to the right console) to load pre-programmed mission routes, including your return course at the end of the mission.

(Note: From the following chapters I gather that, after launch, the throttle lever position should be set to "idling" - zero thrust - and the drive/fuel system should be set to "cruising" mode, but it's not clearly specified. I guess that's covered in the omitted Chapter 2.5, "Flying in a Straight Line.")


3. Combat Sequence

The warning panel (on the front console) will alert you to approaching enemies - in this example, because your mono-eye's infra-red sensors have picked up their thruster flares. Set the sensor mode to "scan" (via the top console), and the mono-eye will automatically seek out enemy targets. As you enter battle, set the drive/fuel system mode to "combat," and crank up the throttle lever for bursts of propellant-burning speed.

Set the combat mode selector on the right control stick to "shooting," and release the trigger lock. A targeting reticule will then appear on your main monitor, while enemy units will be tagged with target symbols. Use the control stick to move the reticule onto the desired target, get a lock-on, and pull the trigger. In close-quarters combat, set the combat mode selector to "melee." Go a few seconds at full throttle - can't waste propellant! - to close the distance, then pull the trigger to swipe with your beam sword.

In the course of this chapter's combat example, there's some discussion of dealing with battle damage. You can use the index sub-console to switch hands, the manual activation buttons will turn red to indicate lost apogee motors, et cetera. Also, as you use up your propellant, you should adjust the throttle lever to reduce your thrust.

Once combat is over, you can return to your mission route. Set the drive/fuel system mode back to "cruising" while you check for damage and glance at your propellant levels. All clear? Set the sensor mode back to "warning" (via the top console), put the throttle lever back into "idling" position, and continue on your course.


4. Escape Sequence

This chapter details the workings of the emergency ejection mechanism, which is activated by opening a box under the seat and pulling on the "escape ring" inside. The mobile suit's chest armor blows off, and then the seat is launched about a quarter of a second later. The seat's rocket motors fire for up to 30 seconds, with a peak acceleration of 16 gees; within five seconds you'll be a kilometer away from the mobile suit, safely clear of the blast radius. (I note that these figures indicate an average acceleration of 8 gees.)

Once you've ejected, you can maneuver the drifting seat with its built-in apogee motors. The life-support systems provide five days' worth of air, and three days' worth of food and water (presumably delivered in-helmet), while a beacon signals to friendly rescuers. Or unfriendly ones - thanks, Antarctic Treaty!

The chapter closes by discussing how the ejection mechanism can be employed in other environments - inside space colonies, on Earth, on the moon, et cetera.


5. Return Sequence

Assuming your mission went well, you now get to return to your carrier ship. Your operator will guide you through the final stage of the approach. Once you reach the ship's hull, turn on your foot magnets, set the throttle lever to "idling," and set your drive/fuel system mode to "walk." Then, once you're safely back in the hangar, switch the drive/fuel system to "maintenance" mode. This will shut down the thrusters, lock all the drive systems, and finally power down the generator. Good job!


-- Mark

[Amadi Akintunde]

Or, more recently, when we see the Stark Jegan's pilot press a series of buttons on his controls to fire his machine's missiles.

It wasn't really a 'series of buttons'. More like three taps of what looks like an unlocking mechanism, and a fourth of the firing trigger. Following that was a series of buttons on a holographic panel and three taps on the left control stick to release his missile pods.

[shinaobi]

While it's juuuust this side of barely relevant, I do feel it's worth noting my experiences with a mech-piloting arcade game. For controlling the machines, we had two control sticks, with a few buttons on each stick, and two pedals. One was used for general horizontal thrusting, and another for vertical thrusting. One stick was used for your lower body, and pointing, another for upper body pivoting around; the buttons each controlled the use of various weapons. There was a targeting reticule on-screen, and, if you had it trained on your enemy guy for long enough, it would lock-on and would track your missiles, and even your reticule, onto them.


Basically, it's just my way of agreeing with the people who have spoken so far saying that piloting the non-magical robots can be remarkably simplified if you have a good computer system micro-managing you, and adding some bits of my own in presuming that your average pilot generally has a control scheme a smidge more complicated than that, but, since the average pilot is probably going to be piloting a mass-production model, the computer is also mass-produced, and so it can only manage simplistically complex maneuvers, (oxymoron, I know, but bear with me if you can) but the aces, presumably having proved that they are worth the extra resources, get computers able to manage more complex commands (and, given the ways we've seen pilots attack with pinpoint accuracy in the middle of a complex maneuver, it can probably even figure out ways to adapt the maneuver tactically, given pilot preferences and enemy movement patterns; the grunt comps are probably only able to guide onto the target, but apparently can't do that much to adapt to the current situation on its own) and that special peeps like Newtypes/Innovators/Sailor Scouts/etc. are capable of syncing up with the computer's processes to some degree to maximize piloting efficiency, and, when properly accomodated (psycommu, for example) can even connect semi-directly to the computer, which brings in all sorts of possibilities.

In summary: I support the double-stick (dotted with buttons for weapon usage) plus pedals (thrust and braking, for flight) with computer managing it all as the control scheme on Mobile Suits/Armors (unless we are explicitly shown otherwise); better suits tend to have better computers on top of other technological advantages, so that they can do more things better (deal with the redundancy if you can).

[blind_dead_mcjones]

In summary: I support the double-stick (dotted with buttons for weapon usage) plus pedals (thrust and braking, for flight) with computer managing it all as the control scheme on Mobile Suits/Armors (unless we are explicitly shown otherwise); better suits tend to have better computers on top of other technological advantages, so that they can do more things better (deal with the redundancy if you can).

only bit i have to argue with the use of pedals for thrust and braking, on the grounds that it is rather anachronistic for something thats going to fly, considering that pedals in aircraft are used for controlling the tail stabiliser

personally i hypothesize that mecha would use something similar to how a fighter aircraft operates: left stick controls power output and thrust, pedals are for turning, right stick controls movement (forward, back, side to side, and orientation control by twisting the handgrip), and the thumbsticks on both joysticks control the arms, along with assosicated HOTAS controls added for various other systems

having a similar layout to a jet fighter would also reduce training time by easing the learning curve

[shinaobi]

Well, at the same time, it seems to me like MS pilots wouldn't all be jet pilots first and foremost (I can imagine more than a few were tank crew, and some piloted absolutely nothing [Amuro Ray, along with various other drop-in-the-cockpit peeps] ), and Mobile Suits aren't jets anyway (give or take your transforming models, i.e. Zeta and its ilk). Assuming that functioning legs are part of the design, they'd probably need finer control than pedals (since, especially on the ground, they play a big role in turning, along with the waist, and there's only so much you can ask the computer to do).

This situation definitely changes some when you put an MS in the air, and some more when you put it in space, which leads me to theorize that there are also probably control switches available for switching from space, ground, and atmospheric flight modes, since each environment has differing necessities.