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 Post Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:31 pm 
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Hey guys! I'm new here, and I would like your reaction on the mecha design of "Gundam Seed vs. Astray. thanks a lot, and more fire power. :D

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 Post Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:45 pm 
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This is the wrong section for a thread about VS ASTRAY. Please take this to the Mecha and Technology forum.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:21 am 
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but this is the mecha and technology section.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:02 am 
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That's because it was moved.

Carry on.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:39 pm 
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well, i dont really love or hate them. guess thats because i dont really have any interest in SEED's universe anymore. another reason i dont care is because they are obviously cashing in on the new manga. the last design i really like from SEED is Strike Noir.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Umm, mostly cheap cash-ins with questionable performance improvements over the original designs. Nebula Blitz is decent looking and has solid enough changes (basically just adding Amatu parts), Hail Buster's new guns make sense but the shoulder and leg armor part shuffle doesn't seem to serve any purpose, Vent Savior is effectively unchanged, Gale Strike and Nix Providence make very little sense and are pretty ugly to look at and Regen Duel is pretty much a parts shuffle of the Duel AS with the bazooka replacing the missile pod.

Was there something specific you wanted to talk about?


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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Personally, I find it weird that the Calamity, Forbidden, and Raider Gundams were supposed to be improvements over the original set, but they keep doing revamps and upgrades of the originals.

Practically speaking, the latter trio obviously aren't as popular as the originals, and you could probably blame some of that on the mecha design. But it would be nice to have an in-universe explanation of why the "successors" to the original GAT-X series have been pretty much ignored.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 3:21 pm 
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toysdream wrote:
But it would be nice to have an in-universe explanation of why the "successors" to the original GAT-X series have been pretty much ignored.


This would hinge on the fate of Azrael's company after SEED, but perhaps his company was bought out or something by a competitor after Azrael got positron'd and the designs were discarded by their new owners?


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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:26 pm 
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toysdream wrote:
Personally, I find it weird that the Calamity, Forbidden, and Raider Gundams were supposed to be improvements over the original set, but they keep doing revamps and upgrades of the originals.

Practically speaking, the latter trio obviously aren't as popular as the originals, and you could probably blame some of that on the mecha design. But it would be nice to have an in-universe explanation of why the "successors" to the original GAT-X series have been pretty much ignored.

-- Mark

I'd think the combination of their failures, the Strike's success-enough that ZAFT follows its example repeatedly-and having all of your mass production MS based on them is a pretty good start. The Strike itself gets by far the most attention with the multiple Strike E units and Raigo, which makes sense given the heavy use of Striker packs.

I'm not sure if one can call Forbidden Vortex ignoring it, but generally there's sort of developmental use for the new versions of old units that they extend the production versions. (ignoring Aegis, which only got one retake anyways, probably inspired by Regenerate) Although Duel, Buster, and Blitz never really get anywhere, I think you could argue the Strike E did have an effect of the development of the Windam, and prior to refitting its use of the IWSP definitely contributed to the Doppelhorn and Jet Strikers. Librarian's versions are pretty much alternate takes on the Phantom Pain ones using a library :roll: of cross-faction design information.

On the other hand, the new GAT-X units were a crummy team, their evolutions are all really specialized and other than Forbidden, semi-redundant in the face of Striker packs. Sword Calamity doesn't lead back into anything useful, a new Forbidden Gundam would only be relevant if it were an aquatic Gundam, etc.


I think Gale Strike and Nix Providence are probably among the most functional there despite their crazy designs. If Providence is scary, Providence with Striker packs has to be even scarier, right? It's also hard to argue with a Strike that has massive shoulder thrusters and big swords without a Striker mounted, even if they limit its pack choice. Regen Duel is a pretty decent shuffling of thrusters as well, with just a general better arrangement of everything for general use than Blu Duel's banzai melee charge setup.

I think they did an okay job with the limited resources they had for making semi-new designs.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:02 pm 
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I don't like any of the mobile suits - generally bad/poor relocation of parts (shoulder armor relocated to ankle etc). No matter how many times I try to re-view and justify them, they doesn't make sense. Those design violates the basic physic/science/logic concept of SEED.

The worst is Nix Providence - the original is so nice, why spoil it?! It's horrible!

As for the model kits, I won't buy them!

As for comparison in SEED series, Stargazer's MS is much much better and not a half-hearted job.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:19 am 
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Visual-wise, none of them strike me at sight.

On technical, they're pretty interesting though. Partial because most of them still stick to old concept of original suit, with tweak.

Idea of Gale Strike as fast aerial combat mech is good especially if you consider that it is really just improvement of Aile Strike.

Hail Buster...do I really need to point out? Idea of stealth spammer is scary.

Regen Duel isn't bad, design with discardable rail weapons is mundane but its root come from how Duel AS can be more effective by eject the armor when engage in close combat.

Nix Providence is really close to it original, all they did is rearrange weapons placement so it can be use without deploy the DRAGOONs. Ok, it's similar concept to Legend but I can't say I hate it.

Vent Saviour...actually the least intersting, since all they did is minor improvement on aerial manuever by move the small wings. Then again, Saviour need LOVE.

Nebula Blitz, combination of Blitz and Amatu isn't bad. But idea of teleportation in CE keep bugging me.

Mirage Frame...I don't care until the 2nd Issue. Now it has Gaia's quadrup mode, beam bending rifle derived from Forbidden and speed that live up to its appearance. Its visual isn't cool, but how can I hate something resemble Kamen Rider Kabuto to the point of having "Clock-up" super speed?

Blue Frame 2nd Revise. Very make sense design, but too close to original to give any comment.

Red Frame Kai. Good upgrade for Red Frame, it's actually combination of Blue Frame 2nd, Turn Delta and Divine Testament. It loss "classic" feel of Red Frame, but not really bad design.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:50 am 
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The only Gundam I liked was probably the Hail Buster. But every single Gundam here is practically the same as their originals just with swapped parts. But I think the one that was the most terrible was the Nix Providence. I don't see the appeal in it's new design for it just looks so ugly with the dragoon backpack being on the shoulder. It's rearrangement didn't even make sense. And as for the Gale Strike, the shield being on the back just seemed kinda dumb. I think the only new Gundam in the series was probably the Astray Mirage Frame. The thing was still ugly in my opinion but non the less a lot different from its original.

Gunpla wise, I think that if you already have the original forms of these, it's just a waste of money to even buy another one just with different colors and a few extra pieces.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:16 am 
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DeltasTaii wrote:
I think Gale Strike and Nix Providence are probably among the most functional there despite their crazy designs.


Oddly, those are the two I hate the most.

While I understand the appeal of being able to use all the Dragoons without detaching them, you've got to admit that the thing is fugly and the paintjob doesn't help. Then there's the shield which was designed to be arm mounted and is only functional as a shield, as a pair of guns or as a saber while arm mounted... stuck to the top of a shoulder. Okay, the striker pack idea isn't bad and neither is making the rifle a remote weapon but given that it's obviously created by combining what used to be the shoulder armor, it's hard to take seriously.

Also, please explain what purpose Gale Strike's shoulder mounted thrusters serve. It seems to me the only thing they could possibly do would be to shove the arm and that fragile shoulder joint into the torso. Makes a lot less sense than the old design where the were able to direct thrust in a number of directions. Oh, and relocating the knife racks to the tips of the elbows where the thing has to do contortions to reach them? Yeah, dumb.

At least the other designs don't actively insult my common sense to look at them (though it's obvious that Mirage Frame Second really wants to be a Zoid when it grows up but just doesn't have what it takes).


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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 am 
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Kuruni wrote:
Hail Buster...do I really need to point out? Idea of stealth spammer is scary.


not really, it'l work for the first 4 shots but after that you'll figure out its pattern and where it is, then its not so scary anymore.

Kuruni wrote:
Red Frame Kai. Good upgrade for Red Frame, it's actually combination of Blue Frame 2nd, Turn Delta and Divine Testament. It loss "classic" feel of Red Frame, but not really bad design.


partial rebuild using what was left of the blue frame 2nd revise's carcass and its tactical arms II is a more accurate description

aside from the red and blue frames (which are just more streamlined versions of the originals) i don't particularly like the new 'designs' as they aren't really new designs at all its just more crap tacked on and a few armour panels shifted about in a cynical attempt to make a 'new' or 'upgraded' design and hope that no one will notice.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:15 am 
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All of the new designs are horribly ugly and blatantly obviously made just to sell more models without needing to retool the dies too much.


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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:19 am 
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The VS Astray designs seems to be functionally more adequate than the originals. Technical-wise, it's pretty easy to assume that they're better than their original design, but Visual-wise, they practically look the same as the originals, but with differently new concepts and paint-jobs, and you can't help but think that the designers are being lazy. The only unit I am having problems with is Nix Providence.

They should have removed the legs on Nix Providence, and should have given it more thrusters, considering that having the whole DRAGOON back-pack being mounted on the shoulder would definitely give Nix terrible balance.
Or probably put another DRAGOON pack on the other shoulder, so that Nix would look like a decently balanced suit for space combat.

The only 'somewhat' original concept out of Librarian seems to be Mirage Frame 2nd Issue, due to its Zoid-mode, and it is something you would expect to see in Gundam Beast. :|

I think it would have helped if Sunrise ever animated it, so that we could actually gauge the capabilities of the New MS, than say "_____ is the same as _____ but with a different paint-job."

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not really, it'l work for the first 4 shots but after that you'll figure out its pattern and where it is, then its not so scary anymore.


I guess it did happen against Blitz, but on the other hand, Blitz isn't necessarily a Long-range mobile suit capable of firing its weapons outside of Visual range. There isn't an effective method that I could think of to hit the Hail Buster, since it is likely that Hail would move to a different position, while you calculate its position. Unless you have a Mirage Colloid Detector, you have to be extremely lucky to hit it.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:17 pm 
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DoubleZero wrote:

I guess it did happen against Blitz, but on the other hand, Blitz isn't necessarily a Long-range mobile suit capable of firing its weapons outside of Visual range. There isn't an effective method that I could think of to hit the Hail Buster, since it is likely that Hail would move to a different position, while you calculate its position. Unless you have a Mirage Colloid Detector, you have to be extremely lucky to hit it.


the hail buster is a sniper based unit, the mirage colloid is simply a more advanced form of ghillie suit, and being a long range sniping unit, it would come under the same pitfalls that would befall a real sniper if he wasn't careful, taking too many shots is one of them, if it fires more then four, regardless fo whether it changes position or not, the four shots prove repitition and the enemy will then know that they're dealing with a sniper and react accordingly (either by trying lure him out, or just calling a bombardment on a large area where they think he is), also its mirage colloid will only last as long as the suit's battery

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:37 am 
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But did you all know that in their toys you can swap their striker pack to each other, and why in the world did they put the dragoon unit of nix providence in the shoulder? i think the old version is better, and why do they use the "old name" in the MS (e.g. Gale Strike, Hail Buster, Nix Providence, etc.) did they run out of ideas? c'mon their a lot of possible name that they can come up. right?

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:05 am 
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Because they are all variation of older suit, with some tweak. Kind of like complaining why every cake must has "cake" in name.

Invertly, you will complain "It's just Strike, why they change the name when it's just Strike!" if they change the name completely (before you bring up Impulse, the thing has Core Block System and VPS which are major upgrade).

Oh, and they don't just put DRAGOON on NP's shoulder. They put them on shoulders, waist and back. Some of them can use without disconnect. The last one can be switch to other Striker Pack.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Ok i get it. thanks.

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