Known MSV-R so far

[Homeless]

So in other words it isn't the most pointless MSV-R to date, but it's very close.

[Calubin_175]

So it is basically a retrofit for the MS-05B to keep up with the new MS-06, much like how some MS-06Js were modified into the MS-06G in wake of the MS-07's deployment.

[JEFFPIATT]

that makes sense the Zaku I Q type is the final refit that brings the old zaku I frames up to zaku II spec. it got dropped so they could dedicate production on the MS-06C and started the program back up when they started running low on ms.

[Gelgoog Jager]

So Ramba Ral's MS-05B and Gerhart Schmeisser's MS-05S are both actually MS-05Q?

At least in the case of aces, it seems that each unit an unusual piece of equipment, with Ramba Ral's MS-05B having one of those rare large-sized Heat Hawks, while Gerhart Schmeisser's MS-05S having a Gouf's shield and heat sword and Norris Packard's unit having a those spiked fists.

However, that still leaves the question on why Norris' unit has that head cable?

Anyway, maybe in a future retcon MSV-R will one day give the Zaku I Land Type its own model number as well.

[toysdream]

So it is basically a retrofit for the MS-05B to keep up with the new MS-06, much like how some MS-06Js were modified into the MS-06G in wake of the MS-07's deployment.

I don't think any MS-06J types were converted into the G type - it sounds like all the G types were produced that way from the beginning. So that's not a good example.

On the other hand, it's sometimes been claimed that the MS-06FZ was an upgrade applied to existing Zaku II units, hence the extra letter tacked on the end.

-- Mark

[Calubin_175]

By the way, is the desert color Gouf featured in the MS-07W and Dodai GA article formerly interpreted as the Real Type Color Gouf? I think the source was in one of the 80s model magazines.

With regards to Ramba Ral's Zaku I, the MG manual said it was tested in UC 0076, presumably without its heat hawk.

[toysdream]

By the way, is the desert color Gouf featured in the MS-07W and Dodai GA article formerly interpreted as the Real Type Color Gouf? I think the source was in one of the 80s model magazines.

That color scheme for the Gouf was created during the old MSV era, but I don't think it ever had a name.

With regards to Ramba Ral's Zaku I, the MG manual said it was tested in UC 0076, presumably without its heat hawk.

Specifically, the MG kit manual said that Ral's Zaku I was produced in December of U.C. 0076, and was equipped with experimental ground combat devices that had been created during the development of local warfare mobile suits. It's not clear whether or not the big heat hawk was part of its original equipment.

In any case, since the Q type is a retrofit applied to existing Zaku I units during U.C. 0078, it's certainly possible that an ace machine like Ramba Ral's might have received the upgrade at this point.

-- Mark

[Gelgoog Jager]

With regards to Ramba Ral's Zaku I, the MG manual said it was tested in UC 0076, presumably without its heat hawk.

Specifically, the MG kit manual said that Ral's Zaku I was produced in December of U.C. 0076, and was equipped with experimental ground combat devices that had been created during the development of local warfare mobile suits. It's not clear whether or not the big heat hawk was part of its original equipment.

By the way Mark, is there any more info on those customized Heat Hawks used by the Zakus belonging to Ramba Ral, Dozle and Garma? Are they mainly decorative weapons for commander units, or were they also used by the Zakus of regular soldiers? And does other similiar custom designs exist out there?

[Enileph]

Seems to be a prototype weapon with a limited production run, just like those machineguns with bayonet.

Oh btw this MS-05Q is not a land type... though it is weird why it has that small shield on the machinegun... I mean it is not going to do much when you are in space.

[JEFFPIATT]

Well the Zaku I Q was meant to be an overhaul to allow the ms-05 to function at an level equal to the MS-06C. but part way through they stopped the retrofit program and put full production to Zaku II units. near the end of the conflict they actually went back to refitting zaku I units.

[Gelgoog Jager]

I checked the Gundam wikia and found that someone has been posting some summaries for the manga chapters. I especially found interesting a part where it says that actually 3 Chimaira-type Zanzibars were built and that the Chimaira that served as the flasghips of the Chimera Corps was not at A Baoa Qu by the time the war ended. In fact it mentions that Kycillia was the one that prevented them from deploying into battle more often. It also comments on the Minaret, which seems to be the secret Mark talked about earlier:

As an aside, I think this may tie into the central plot of the ongoing Johnny Ridden comic in Gundam Ace. There's a mystery being built up around the pilot of the blue Gelgoog (previously shown in an FSS Action Graphic in the MSV-R features), and during the battle of A Baoa Qu this pilot apparently dueled Johnny Ridden over some kind of mysterious large object that was being escorted by the Chimera Fleet. The obvious supposition would be that the Chimera Fleet was escorting a nuke-laden Big Ruf, and that the blue Gelgoog (presumably piloted by Gilliam) was defending it from Ridden's interference, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

-- Mark

But the summary at wikipedia claims that instead, it is believed to be the treasure of the Zabi family.

Some more info is provided about the Uma Lightning customized Gelgoog, such as it using Federation materials and technology and probably having been upgraded by Anaheim. I don't know if these scans have any additional info:

After checking Deacon's list I realized we were missing this unit:

MS-14B Uma Lightning Custom

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/ ... 4BULCa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/ ... 4BULCb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/ ... 4BULCc.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/ ... 4BULCd.jpg

I hope someone can translate its background information.

Then, there's also mention of 3 more Chimera pilots: Siemens, Emma and Cristobal who seemed to work for Uma. And it also seems that parts of Jaburo remain operational even after the Titans destroyed it with nuclear weapons during the Gryps war, and where some suspect that the Minaret is located.

Anyway, at the time my main question for those who have been following the manga is: How accurate is the information from the chapters' summaries posted at Wikipedia?

[toysdream]

I checked the Gundam wikia and found that someone has been posting some summaries for the manga chapters. I especially found interesting a part where it says that actually 3 Chimaira-type Zanzibars were built and that the Chimaira that served as the flasghips of the Chimera Corps was not at A Baoa Qu by the time the war ended. In fact it mentions that Kycillia was the one that prevented them from deploying into battle more often. It also comments on the Minaret, which seems to be the secret Mark talked about earlier:

The synopses on the wiki look pretty accurate. There's a slight confusion about the "Chimaira type" - "Chimaira" is just the name of one specific Zanzibar cruiser, which served as the flagship of the Chimaira Corps and appeared in the Battle of A Baoa Qu. The Chimaira was eventually modified with an extra hangar unit. A total of three Zanzibar cruisers underwent this modification, but it's unknown what happened to the other two.

According to recent materials in Gundam Ace, the Chimaira Corps had two Zanzibar cruisers. One of these was the CCM-91 Chimaira, which was painted in standard green colors and was modified with the extra hangar unit. The other Zanzibar, name unknown, was painted blue and had no hangar unit. The rest of the fleet was made up of Musai cruisers.

As far as the mysterious "Minaret," it's possible that this was the large object being escorted by the Chimaira Corps at A Baoa Qu. Whatever that object was, it had powerful thrusters according to the flashback shown in one of the other comics serials by Ark Performance, "Blazing A Baoa Qu".

Some more info is provided about the Uma Lightning customized Gelgoog, such as it using Federation materials and technology and probably having been upgraded by Anaheim. I don't know if these scans have any additional info:

Not really. The MSV-R profile only discusses Uma Lightning's Gelgoog in the context of the One Year War, and doesn't mention any later appearances or post-war upgrades. The most significant bit of info in the profile is that Uma's machine incorporates prototype MS-11 parts left over from before the designation of the Gelgoog project was changed to "MS-14". The unique head, then, is presumably that of the MS-11 version.

-- Mark

[Gelgoog Jager]

The synopses on the wiki look pretty accurate. There's a slight confusion about the "Chimaira type" - "Chimaira" is just the name of one specific Zanzibar cruiser, which served as the flagship of the Chimaira Corps and appeared in the Battle of A Baoa Qu. The Chimaira was eventually modified with an extra hangar unit. A total of three Zanzibar cruisers underwent this modification, but it's unknown what happened to the other two.

According to recent materials in Gundam Ace, the Chimaira Corps had two Zanzibar cruisers. One of these was the CCM-91 Chimaira, which was painted in standard green colors and was modified with the extra hangar unit. The other Zanzibar, name unknown, was painted blue and had no hangar unit. The rest of the fleet was made up of Musai cruisers.

So, the Chimaira Fleet consisted on 2 Zanzibars and 6 Musais now? It now seems that they had a bit too much unused MS capacity, considering that they only operated 24 Gelgoogs, or is there any indication of other units beside Gelgoog? (the only example I remember is that in a mission in EiS Johnny Ridden would have a mock battle in his Gelgoog against 3 Rick Doms).

In Operation Clarion, 12 of the Chimaira Corps Gelgoogs were deployed from just 3 Musais. I recently found this pic from the MS-14BR and MS-14C-1A MSV-R profile. It shows how the Gelgoogs would fit inside a Musai Hangar. While I'm not a 100% sure, but it almsot looks spacious enough for 4 Gelgoog to fit inside, 2 on each wall, or at least 3, one on each wall and a third one on the wall opposite of the hangar hatch. Though I must say I'm a bit dissapointed that they swtiched back to the old Musai design when the MS Igloo version seemed like a better option for being the "standard Musai".

Back to the pic, there is another interesting thing to notice. While the Blue and Yellow Gelgoogs had been previously seen as the examples for the MS-14BR and MS-14C-1A respectively, but in the picture we can see a second MS-14C-1A unit. Unfortunately the red lights inside the Musai hangar make it difficult to confirm its color, though I suspect it might be light brown judging from the leg that is still not quite inside the hangar. It has a white and black pattern, similiar to the one of the other MS-14C-1A, but not identical. In fact when I first saw it, I couldn't help but think it could be something similiar to a cross, kinda like the color scheme of Kaite Madigan's personal MS units.

And while we now have a new unidentified Gelgoog, I think I have also identified the owner of the first MS-14C-1A: Jacobius Node. In the MSV-R manga summaries it was mentioned that he coudl have belonged to the chimaira Corps, but since Jacobius seemed to have failed to identify Johnny Ridden, I though he might had been lying about it. But then I found this pic of the Gelgoog he uses in the manga during a battle at Jaburo. The pattern on the shoudler seems to be the same as well as the Gelgoog Cannon head. The MS-06E-3-like visor must be and add on that was adapted to allow it to use the sniper rifle more effectively. Since he does have the Gelgoog to back up his claim, that does add more weight to his claim, and I suppose it might be possible that he lied when he said that he didn't recognized Johnny Ridden when he met him on U.C.0089.

Finally, I wanted to ask a couple of questions regarding the other Gelgoogs from the first pic:
-IIRC the green and yellow MS-14C is Thomas Kurtz unit, but what about Gerald Sakai's unit? Is it the gray MS-14C? I always considered the gray color scheme to be the standard colors for the Gelgoog Cannons (if not the color they already have right out of the factory), but what if he was the first to use that color scheme and the few mass produced units (about 3 untis?) were painted just like his.

At first I didn't considered that possibility, but IIRC the MS-07B did end up using the color scheme of the ace who piloted the prototype, Ramba Ral. I have heard the same about the Dom, but the Black Tri-Stars color scheme is actually black, purple and white, just as seen on their Zakus and, in some IF scenarios, their Gelgoogs, so it might not be the case.

So, is there any confirmation if the gray MS-14C is indeed his unit painted in his personal color scheme? If not, is there any indication what his color scheme might be like?

-Also, while the Red Gelgoog Cannon is usually considered to be another of Johnny Ridden's units, I can't help but question why the color scheme has many differences when compared to his MS-14B. Is is possible that it might actually be the color scheme of a another pilot?

-And just out of curiosity, any idea why only Uma Lightning's and the unit painted in Robert Gilliam's colors have commander antennas? I would have expected that at very least Johnny Ridden's unit would have one too as the leader of the Chimaira Corps.

[toysdream]

So, the Chimaira Fleet consisted on 2 Zanzibars and 6 Musais now?

According to Gundam Ace's "Data Gundam" column, it had six ships - two Zanzibars, three Musais, one unknown.

Though I must say I'm a bit dissapointed that they swtiched back to the old Musai design when the MS Igloo version seemed like a better option for being the "standard Musai".

Well, MSV-R is pretty stubbornly retro - none of the mecha designs or illustrations really acknowledge post-MSV stuff like Gundam 0080, 0083, or MS Igloo.

Back to the pic, there is another interesting thing to notice. While the Blue and Yellow Gelgoogs had been previously seen as the examples for the MS-14BR and MS-14C-1A respectively, but in the picture we can see a second MS-14C-1A unit. Unfortunately the red lights inside the Musai hangar make it difficult to confirm its color, though I suspect it might be light brown judging from the leg that is still not quite inside the hangar. It has a white and black pattern, similiar to the one of the other MS-14C-1A, but not identical.

I dunno, they look identical to me, especially in the original Gundam Ace issue. It's hard to say whether the base color is more brownish, or if that's just the hangar lighting. As for Jacobius, he does have the same stripe pattern on his Gelgoog, but only on the left shoulder, so it could be either of the machines in the MSV-R illustration.

As for the other Gelgoogs, the MSV-R articles actually address this. From the sidebar to the Musai hangar illustration we've been discussing:

MS-14 Geloogs of the Ace Corps
In December of U.C. 0079, 24 units of the YMS-14 Gelgoog and 31 ace pilots were gathered in the Chimaira Fleet, whose flagship was the Zanzibar-class Chimaira. Thus was organized Zeon's first ace pilot mobile suit corps. Because each of the 24 YMS-14 units were tuned up to meet the demands of their pilots, they all became machines with mobility and firepower far surpassing that of a normal MS-14.

Lieutenant Commander Johnny Ridden, the Crimson Lightning, was one of the aces recruited for the Chimaira Fleet. Although he is recorded as using both a 14B and a 14C, the 14C appears to have been prepared as a reserve machine. This could be thought of as a special measure taken for Lieutenant Commander Ridden due to problems with maintenance and operating times.

This MS-14C, known for its green and sandy brown camouflage colors, was also a machine of the Chimaira Fleet. Its pilot is believed to have been Lieutenant Junior Grade Tomas Cruz, but it seems to have been part of a team of machines with similar colors. The gray MS-14C on the right is painted in the standard MS-14C color pattern.

As for Ridden's command antenna, this isn't shown in the original MSV design or box art, but it's present in the MSV and MG model kits, and in the flashback to Ridden dueling Uma Lighting in the "Blazing A Baoa Qu" serial. So even if his Gelgoog didn't have the antenna originally, it seems to have picked one up along the way.

-- Mark

[domtropen]

With all the update I have some questions about Gelgoog:
1] Can the MS-14C use beam rifle and the backpack beam cannon at the same time now? IIRC it was said in the past that they couldn't be used at the same time.

2] Can MS-14A and B use cannon backpack? Does cannon backpack need the forehead camera of 14C?

[Gelgoog Jager]

So, the Chimaira Fleet consisted on 2 Zanzibars and 6 Musais now?

According to Gundam Ace's "Data Gundam" column, it had six ships - two Zanzibars, three Musais, one unknown.

So then we have two different sources with different numbers for the size of the Chimaira fleet, the other being the Zeon Military file CD-ROM:

Finally, anyone knows exactly how many Musais belonged to the Chimera Corps fleet?

Six, according to the old Zeon Military File CD-ROM.

-- Mark

Which of the two do you consider more accurate or a more reliable source?

[toysdream]

1] Can the MS-14C use beam rifle and the backpack beam cannon at the same time now? IIRC it was said in the past that they couldn't be used at the same time.

Sure, why not? It's carrying both weapons in the old 1/60 scale box art. Supposedly, the backpack cannon was originally created as a stopgap while the Principality was setting up its beam rifle production lines.

2] Can MS-14A and B use cannon backpack? Does cannon backpack need the forehead camera of 14C?

Perhaps they could use it, but the cannon's auto-tracking is supposedly linked to the forehead sensor, so I doubt it would be as accurate.

Which of the two do you consider more accurate or a more reliable source?

I'd go with Data Gundam on this. So it appears that the entire fleet consists of six ships, rather than the Chimaira plus six ships.

-- Mark

[Calubin_175]

Well, MSV-R is pretty stubbornly retro - none of the mecha designs or illustrations really acknowledge post-MSV stuff like Gundam 0080, 0083, or MS Igloo.

Yet, they still incorporated some of the Okawara design aspects from the 08th MS Team, such as the yellow Guncannon's weapons.

Speaking of MSV operations, here are a few scans from the MSV Collection file. Credit goes to balofo for finding the scans.

Earth
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... 5/144B.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... 5/144A.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... 5/143B.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... 5/143A.jpg

Space
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... _space.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... _space.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... _space.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn25 ... _space.jpg

[toysdream]

Well, MSV-R is pretty stubbornly retro - none of the mecha designs or illustrations really acknowledge post-MSV stuff like Gundam 0080, 0083, or MS Igloo.

Yet, they still incorporated some of the Okawara design aspects from the 08th MS Team, such as the yellow Guncannon's weapons.

True, and there's a GM Sniper Custom variant with 08th MS Team-style missile launchers on its shoulders. Let's amend that to say that Okawara's designs from 08th MS Team seem to be included within the scope of MSV-R; since they've just featured a Norris Packard custom machine, maybe this applies to 08th MS Team as a whole.

There are a few things - like the Guncannon's shoulder pads and chin bar, or the Big Ruf's missile-carrying pylon - that seem like indirect references to stuff from 0080 or MS Igloo, but I don't think they've been explicitly discussed in the text. For the most part, MSV-R seems to take place inside a special time capsule where, with the exception of 08th MS Team, the Gundam world hasn't been updated since 1984.

-- Mark

[domtropen]

Maybe Okawara doesn't like other designers' design perhaps ? Hope there won't be MS design as a replacement for GM Custom, GM Command and kin, Gelgoog Jaeger and such [like new model that would be conflicted with existing model]