Mecha Talk

It was a rhetorical question.

Although I am grateful to Tomino for starting/inspiring the Real Robot sub-genre, I believe he either lost his way very quickly or he never truly bought into Real Robot from the outset.

I thought Zeta, as in 'Z' in the English alphabets, was 'suppose' to be the last Gundam. So Tomino went ballastic and goes 'super robot'.

If your serious, Zeta (uppercase Ζ, lowercase ζ; Greek: Ζήτα [ziːta] Zita) is the sixth letter of the Greek alphabet, which also follows the other known development gundams, Delta, Lambda, Nu etc.

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On Compromise: Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

Or maybe "real robot" just isn't what you thought it was anyway.

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The proof of our might will forever be etched in your minds.

-- Haman Karn

Or maybe it does. Or maybe it is subjective. In any case, would you care to propose a better definition of "Real Robot" to share to the class? I mean, it's one thing to dismiss my entire interpretation so casually, quite another not to offer an alternative view in return. Some might say that sort of behaviour is rude.



[Others might say that hijacking a thread - even if it was unintentional - is also rude. For that I sincerely apologise.]

Or maybe there really isn't a nice neat defining line between "real robot" and "super robot" (especially since Gundam has always blended the two) and your going on about how the Zeta Gundam does super robot-ish stuff is unforgivable is just fanboy complaining based on the faulty assumption that "real robot" shows cannot contain certain elements ever at all and if they do it is "unforgivable," and perhaps you might want to consider that before you get all holier-than-thou about your interpretations of cartoons.

It's a giant robot cartoon. Quit taking it so damn seriously.

And yet, here you are defending said giant robot cartoon. It cuts both ways, mate. Besides, here we both are having signed up to an online forum which is all but dedicated to Mecha, and you wonder why I take Mecha seriously. Got a mirror?

As an aside, you called me a fanboy, but a fanboy of what? I am not a Zeta fanboy; I'm anything but. You might want to use another belittling term to, well, belittle me with, since it would appear that that one is such a poor fit.

And look, if you cannot see how the manifestation of the spirits of dead people into a powerful force is not even remotely allowable by the laws of physics (and therefore completely precludes a show from ever being called "realistic"); and if you cannot see how messing with a show by adding such Deus Ex Machina devices is not only bad storytelling but also wrecks suspension of disbelief and creates giant plot holes, (takes deep breath) then why are we even arguing? Our views are incompatible, therefore there's no point.

Well, see, this paragraph (bolded parts in particular) pretty much shows the flaw in your reasoning here.

Since its creation in '79, every Gundam universe has by its very nature actively defied the known and existing laws of physics, using various measures to sidestep them, or simply ignoring them. Minovsky Physics, N-Jammers, what have you, all in place to make fundamentally impractical and improbably giant robots "realistic" within the narrow confines of their own narrative. By any rigorous standards, there's no reason why anything with a humanoid shape is automatically a superior fighting vehicle - in land warfare, there are plenty of reasons for it to be a far inferior one, in fact. But the shows usually include "Mobile Suit" in their name, so for the sake of story and merchandising, giant robots are better.

So, while I'm no fan of the Dead Newtypes Inside phenomenon myself (see recent biosensor topic), if you can suspend your disbelief enough to accept a universe where giant robots armed with rifles and swords are piloted by psychics, I don't see how said psychic chanelling their dead harem into tangible energy is any more "unrealistic" or "physics-defying"...

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"Trust me, I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer.
A Wind Raging Through, a Destiny sidestory.

a real robot fanboy. Don't start shooting off because he called you a fanboy of soemthing when you're ranting and raving about realism in mecha shows and showing all the symtoms of a fanboy. it would be like showing up to a convention cosplaying as naurto and trying to make people believe you have no idea who the orange jump-suited "ninja" is.



kinda like a rhino and an elephant? but on a more serious note; I actually agree with you the overtly super robot moments of the shows (Zeta versus The O, Nu versus giant rock) are a bit of a slap in the face of the realism of the show, but it could be worse. imagine if they didn't even try to give a reason for what happens. Zeta IMO has never really held much of a strong sense of story characters randomly disappear for long stretches of episodes and add in some random cameos for the hell of it and the final segment of the series seemed extremely rushed like they woke up and realized they only had a few more episodes left to tell the story.

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Crash's Mecha Design Works
Crash's Mecha Based RPG
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ShadowCell wrote: Perspective. It's great.
CrashLegacy14 wrote: my immortal enemy: Perspective.

So, Izayuukan, you're willing to accept giant robots that weigh nearly a hundred tons and stand about twenty-ish meters tall and can move as gracefully and quickly as any well-trained human (or, for that matter, move at all), without breaking apart in midair, without tipping over, without overheating and melting the pilot to death; you're willing to accept a magical do-all particle that conveniently happens to set combat tactics back to those of WWII; but once they get to the biosensor and the dead people, it's "unforgivable," it's "bad storytelling." Everything else, the wacky particles and giant robots, can be forgiven...but not the biosensor.

Mm-hmm.

Hate to break it to ya, but if any violation of the laws of physics at all precludes a show from being "realistic" in your book, then your book ain't gonna have any "real robots" in it. 'cuz, see, giant robots? They violate the laws of physics. They are walking violations of the laws of physics. That they can walk at all is, in fact, a violation of the laws of physics.

(Man, I read an awesome article on how giant robots would be physically unable to move and would wind up killing their pilots, but I can't remember what it was called. Anyone wanna help me out here? I'll give you a cookie!)

And lest I forget...



There's a difference between taking mecha anime seriously and taking it too seriously.

I suppose this bears mentioning for everybody, now that I think about it. I know that the rule here is that you aren't to just cut discussions off with "plot armor" or "it's what the writers wanted to do" or whatever, specifically when you're trying to talk about mecha and technology depicted in these shows. That rule still holds. But if "it's just plot armor" is one extreme of the spectrum, Izayuukan here represents the other extreme, the extreme that takes it too seriously and demands nothing but "realism" and then throws a tantrum when someone points out that it is just a TV show and the dissonance sets in and then RAWWWWWR.

At some point you have to realize that you are just talking about a TV show. That's an unacceptable view for a scientist to take, but we're not talking about science here, we're talking about a TV show--made by humans, who are known to cut corners, to leave things out when they don't care or don't know, to ask you to suspend your disbelief. If you come to a point where you can find no explanation within the show or within real-world science for something, then you'd do well enough to just chalk it up to the writer's license.

Otherwise you throw tantrums and find yourself in a knot that makes absolutely no sense--like, say, just by way of example, suspending your disbelief of wacky magic particle-powered giant robots, but then claiming "unforgivable!" on the giant robot getting power from dead people.

Perspective. It's great.

I'm so going to tote that quote around in my sig Shadow. I'm sure as a fellow artist you can understand the irony of it.

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Crash's Mecha Design Works
Crash's Mecha Based RPG
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ShadowCell wrote: Perspective. It's great.
CrashLegacy14 wrote: my immortal enemy: Perspective.

everyone's changing the topic...


By the way, since I was implying Halo technology for Gundam use, how about Antrophomorphic Advanced AI? I'm not taking away anything from the Haros, but they're limited in their functions as AI. Halo AI's, however, can guide ships and its weapons. Besides, the repetitive speech of the Haros can sometimes get boring or annoying (though I admit that without such, Gundam wouldn't be half as good as it is now).

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"Don Corleone--I am going to leave you now--- because I know-- that you are busy"

does it have to be halo technology?

and how do you know haros are limited in their AI? lockons haro for example was able to control the entire mobile suit and its shield functions at the same time if need be.

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Flag Fighter for life!

*Looks at Hanayo from 00F*

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http://ragingpanzer.blogspot.com

Taste the haste!

Yes, Hanayo and ALICE are two examples (though latter doesn't talk to pilot).

Plus Hanayo got special bonus for being moe character .

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We, the big brother type lolicons, are sensitive folk.

Sure, Haros can do that. I acknowledge that. Halo's AI's, however, can control the defense of a starship, Translate alien languages and hack their "internet", and basically does majority of what Sumeragi does on board (except drinking liquor, of course).

Halo technology in general has more or less advanced "soft hardware" compared to Gundam. The AI's, Slipspace technology, Cryosleep technology, Holotanks, etc. Gundam, on the other hand, has advanced "hard hardware"compared to Halo. Mobile Suits, Gundams, GN Technology (for 00), Warships with positron cannons (SEED) (the Covenant would never stood a chance against these ships), Advanced weapons, etc.

Mixing both... you'll get one hell of a setup.

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"Don Corleone--I am going to leave you now--- because I know-- that you are busy"

You know that Halo wasn't the first scifi property to use AI a whole lot, right?

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http://ragingpanzer.blogspot.com

Taste the haste!

Ah...somehow I forgot Omoikane AI from Nadesico series, which control everything on ship, and also hack Martian Successor network (and it like super robot anime to boost).

And the ship armed with gravity blast cannon (as well as phase transition cannon of Nadesico Y)...so it fit santadi0's bill perfectly.

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We, the big brother type lolicons, are sensitive folk.

I nkow it's not the first. ^ ^ but then Gundam doesn't have such AI. I figured they'd be (very) useful in future series.

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"Don Corleone--I am going to leave you now--- because I know-- that you are busy"