Mecha Talk

Going to continue from this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13738

Has there been any clear confirmation that prior to the Mk-II theft, AE designs such as the Hyaku Shiki, Nemo and Marasai all used an early version of the movable frame similar to that of the Rick Dias?

Many profiles of the Mk-II have emphasised that its frame has sped up the development of the Zeta Gundam. I am assuming that other Mk-II movable frame derived mobile suits would definitely include the Barzam and GM III, but did the Titans or Scirocco utilise it for the Gaplant, Gabthely and Hambrabi?

The other question is, can we assume that all of Haman's Neo Zeon UC 0088 designs also implemented any feedback from the Mk-II? We can certainly assume that all post 0088 AE designs, including ones for Char's Neo Zeon, would have stemmed from the Mk-II's movable frame.

Ummm...no, Axis was far away and using primarily what was left from Zeonic makes at that time still...So no input from the Mk. II. At most they had a few designs leaked to them of the AEUG makes like the Rick Dias which would explain some of the Gaza series on some things I would wager. Particularly the head based cockpit system which is on the Gaza series and Rick Dias primarily at this time.

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IIRC, it's actually the other way around; the Rick Dias used some technology from Axis, namely Gundarium Gamma and the camera design from the Gaza series. I think the reason Anaheim started the Zeta project in the first place was because Char told them that Axis was developing TMS, and had brought some related data with him.

As for whether or not the Titans were able to use the movable frame for their TMS, don't forget that by the time Z Gundam starts, these machines were alread well into development, if Advance of Zeta is to be believed. The movable frame made it's debut in the GM Quel's arm design, making the concept about three-four years old at that point. The Mk-II was just the first MS to incorporate it into the entire MS, basically "hey, look how awesome our MS can be if we build the whole thing like this!", the very definition of a proof-of-concept machine. The AEUG probably already had data on the movable frame concept, seeing as the Rick Dias and Delta Gundam seem to incorporate it to varying degrees. The data garnered from the Mk-II probably allowed them to perfect it. On that note, the degree in which MS like the Rick Dias, Gaplant, Marasai, Nemo, and Asshimar incorporate the movable frame might vary depending on the needs of the engineers that designed it or the level of proficiency in applying the concept at time of development.

Actually that might apply to just about every mobile suit post-0087 as well, since I've noticed that a lot of recent hard specs have began neglecting to mention whether or not an MS is built out of the movable frame. It's not like it's a written rule that everything after the Mk-II has to incorporate it fully (the GM III sure doesn't aside from it's Mk-II arms, for example.) In fact, I'd say it'd probably be expensive to do so.

tl;dr I think the Mk-II was just a proof-of-concept mobile suit, and other MS that followed it probably just used the movable frame concept as much as they needed to in order to achieve the desired performance specs, rather than throughout the entire MS.

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As J-Lead says, the basic idea of the movable frame was established by U.C. 0083-0084. (We should probably hedge that a little because the version of the GM Quel that shows up in the closing scenes of Gundam 0083 appears to have the same arms as the GM Kai.) The Gundam Mark II was just the first really good implementation of a full-body movable frame.

According to the latest available info, it seems that most of the machines that show up in Zeta Gundam have movable frames, even if they're imperfect. Here's a list, using the Zeta Gundam Historika series as a tiebreaker...


No Movable Frame: GM II, Hizack, Galbaldy Beta, Messala, Asshimar, Gaplant, Psyco Gundam, Gaza C, Qubeley

As per Zeta Gundam Historika, the three transformable mobile armors that show up early in the series are pre-movable frame designs. (This presumably overrules Entertainment Bible 2, which claimed the Messala and Gaplant used movable frames.) I've put the Psyco Gundam in this category too, since the Baund Doc is meant to be the first TMA with a movable frame.

Advance of Zeta describes the Asshimar's frame as a "drum frame." As for the Gaza C, it apparently uses a system of movable blocks.


Movable Frame: Gundam Mark II, Nemo, Marasai, Hyaku Shiki, Zeta Gundam, Gabthley, Hambrabi, Barzam, Baund Doc

As per Zeta Gundam Historika, the Nemo and Marasai both have "full system" movable frames. This technology also made the creation of transformable mobile suits feasible; the Baund Doc is the first transformable mobile armor to use it.


Unclear: Rick Dias, Methuss, Dijeh, Byarlant, Palace Athene, Bolinoak Samaan, The O, Psyco Gundam Mark II

The MG kit manual says that the Rick Dias uses an extremely early form of movable frame; the Gundam Film Book series says it's partially constructed with a movable frame, presumably like the GM Quel. On the other hand, the Data Collection series says that the Proto Zeta Gundam, "as a machine developed before the acquisition of the Mark II, adopted Anaheim's proprietary block buildup concept" rather than the movable frame. And likewise, the Encyclopedia of Gundam (by Gundam Officials author Yuka Minakawa) says that the Rick Dias uses this block buildup concept, which was inspired by the construction of the Gaza series and "was, albeit coincidentally, extremely close to the Titans' movable frame."

I think this also puts the Methuss in the gray zone. The Gundam Film Book series says "its movable frame existed purely for the sake of its transformation mechanisms," which suggests another GM Quel-style partial implementation.


According to EB 2, Anaheim gave Axis its linear seat technology and an early prototype version of the movable frame in exchange for Gundarium Gamma, but it appears that this came too late for the movable frame to be adopted in the Gaza C and Qubeley. Once we get to ZZ, almost everything should have movable frames; the old Galluss J kit manual, for example, says that it incorporates this technology.

-- Mark

As for the Gm Quel, this wasn't an improved GM Custom? Aesthetically only the shoulders differ, but it is never mentioned when discussing the movable frame. Besides, how long did the Titans had to develop their first machine? They did have to use previous know-how and designs.

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I think it is pretty hard to say the GM III has a movable frame given that it can be directly upgraded from the GM II. Chances are, it just has Mk-II external parts slapped onto it.

The arms of the GM Quel are completely different from those of the GM Custom. (Although the ones we see in the closing scenes of the Gundam 0083 OVA appear to have GM Kai arms instead.) According to the Master Grade kit manuals, this new arm design is the first step towards the "full-system" movable frame used in the Gundam Mark II. For this reason, most recent sources say that the basic elements of the movable frame were introduced in U.C. 0083. I think we've discussed this in many previous threads here...

By the same token, since the GM III has all-new arms, it probably uses movable frame technology there but not in the rest of the body.

-- Mark

I think it's kind of strange that the Gaza-C and Rick Dias had very similar frames, since the Gaza could apparently only transform four or five times before breaking down, and yet we never heard anything about the Dias having structural problems.

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Well, the Rick Dias didn't have the stress of form-switching placed upon its frame, which must have helped; I always assumed the Gaza-C's frame issues were entirely related to its transformation putting a lot of strain on it, which other movable frame designs were able to overcome.

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Probably so. Remember that the Hyaku Shiki, which was developed after the Rick Dias, had to omit the planned transformation features specifically because its frame wasn't strong enough.

-- Mark

The HGUC GM II and GM III did share quite a few parts, mainly the upper torso, thighs and feet.

Well, the GM III is really just a retrofit of the GM II that features some equipment used on the Gundam MK II/Refined Barzam, so naturally they'd be around 50% the same in terms of parts.

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