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DuelGundam2099
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:06 pm |
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| Monster of the Week |
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1880
Location: Nowhere I am welcomed
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ShadowCell
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:17 pm |
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| Traitor Villain |
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
Posts: 5762
Location: California
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good Christ, that's half an hour long?
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DuelGundam2099
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:20 pm |
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| Monster of the Week |
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1880
Location: Nowhere I am welcomed
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And most of the points cannot be countered logically unless you're a lawyer or attorney. This much I will say: Invincible characters aren't boring or bad. If they were, why do people like characters like Superman, Jason Voorhees, Robocop, or even Godzilla? Even Gilgamesh, Heracles, and Beowulf were borderline invincible depending on what version of the story you're told.
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Sume Gai
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:41 pm |
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| Oblivious Harem Loser |
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 3887
Location: side 3; watchin' out for Zabis
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DuelGundam2099 wrote: This much I will say: Invincible characters aren't boring or bad. If they were, why do people like characters like Superman, Jason Voorhees, Robocop, or even Godzilla? Even Gilgamesh, Heracles, and Beowulf were borderline invincible depending on what version of the story you're told. Narratively speaking a hero who doesn't have to struggle is boring. We root for them because they show a force of will and effort we can respect. A hero who is technically invincible can still be interesting -if- he still has to struggle in some way or another, one reason superman has a weakness. Kira Struggled in SEED even after he got the Freedom all the way to that last fight with Rau. In Destiny the only time he -truely- struggled in a fight was the Freedom Vs Impulse. After getting the Strike Freedom Kira indeed took not a scratch and the moral ambiguity of their adversary was swiftly thrown out the window. There was no physical or moral struggle left for our 'heroes' thus they became boring. Ignoring the fact that the final battle of Destiny has no falling action to round it off if you look between it and SEED or 00 you'll see the hero gets his machine thoroughly trashed in the later two and flies away unhurt in the former. There's little to no tension because it feels like our heroes aren't in peril. To your more specific examples: -Superman has a pantheon of villians who can match him and a highly exploitable weakness plus good writers can put him in situations where he struggles against his own moral codes. -Jason is a slasher villain and his invincibility makes him more threatening. -Robocop has gotten beaten on more than one occasion. not to mention he has to struggle morally because of the constraints placed on him by his rebuilders. -Godzilla has either been a villian or in a well written heroic role gets beaten by his foe at least once. -I don't know the specifics of the Epic of Gilgamesh but he was struggling against time and probably other factors. -Heracles and Beowulf most certainly struggled against their various foes. A victory without struggle is boring, Bravery without Fear is stupidity and Freedom without Limits is just a word. (sorry bit of a rant here to make up for a waste of your time here's an oldie but a goody) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeMXV2zdZ18
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"If You are a man you'll do what's important before you grieve" -Captain Harlock
"I like the SAGA. Its what Rambo would pilot if he was in Gundam 00" -Kylern
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Antares
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 am |
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| Retconned MSV Ace |
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:44 am
Posts: 1636
Location: Finland
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About the GSD video... to quote Gaz from Invader Zim: "Whiner!"  As much as I do love Destiny-bashing, going through the show again with Burke was quite sufficient for me for the time being. 
_________________
-We will not be caught by surprise!
*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.
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DuelGundam2099
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:30 am |
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| Monster of the Week |
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1880
Location: Nowhere I am welcomed
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Quote: There's little to no tension because it feels like our heroes aren't in peril. Strange, I thought it felt tense and there was a sense of peril. Quote: a hero who doesn't have to struggle is boring Not if is executed correctly. Quote: There was no physical or moral struggle left for our 'heroes' thus they became boring. Morally maybe not, but physically? They still had to fight. It was no worse than 0080, Wing, or Turn A. I wonder who exactly comes up with these narrative rules.
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Sume Gai
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:41 pm |
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| Oblivious Harem Loser |
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:57 pm
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Location: side 3; watchin' out for Zabis
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DuelGundam2099 wrote: Strange, I thought it felt tense and there was a sense of peril I certainly didn't. I didn't get the impresion Rey or Shin pushed Kira or Athrun harder than foes they'd fought previously. I didn't feel like they were serious threats to our heros Quote: Not if is executed correctly. This is where moral struggles come in but as I said any ambiguity that Durandal wasa Villian is long since gone at the end of Destiny Quote: Morally maybe not, but physically? They still had to fight. It was no worse than 0080, Wing, or Turn A. A fight is not always a struggle. A struggle is something that tests our hero that pushes them to their limits or puts them through pain. -The final battle for 0080 was definitely an uphill fight for the perspective character (Bernie) and Chris didn't have an easy time of it either even in the Gundam -Wing: Zechs VS Heero was a match between two equals and the white Fang put up a hell of a fight. -Turn A: The Turn X was a perfect match for the turn A and Gym seemed to be an even better pilot than Loran Quote: I wonder who exactly comes up with these narrative rules. no one that I know of it's simply something I've observed over years of reading, watching and writing stories.
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"If You are a man you'll do what's important before you grieve" -Captain Harlock
"I like the SAGA. Its what Rambo would pilot if he was in Gundam 00" -Kylern
Last edited by Sume Gai on Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Seraphic
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:51 pm |
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| OMG Doomsday Laser |
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am
Posts: 1409
Location: Inside the barrel of Wing Zero's left Buster Rifle.
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Overviewer is a ranter and a hate-monger. Even if he has proper criticisms, he doesn't have the decency or humility to be respectful in the way he speaks. He shouldn't be encouraged to rant and bash on things and people, and people constantly try to reason and discuss with him how there are good aspects to the shows he dislikes, but the fact that he refuses to understand demonstrates how he is shortsighted and egotistical. As strange or controversial as Destiny may have been, there is no need to be nasty about it.
_________________ "Red particles are bad, they mutate you into... dead? But green/blue particles are good, apparently, for reasons and for purposes yet to be determined. Isn't science sometimes nicely color-coded?"
-AntaresGW: The Sword . Sera's Art . Gameplay . The Lost Citadel
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Seraphic
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:50 pm |
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| OMG Doomsday Laser |
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am
Posts: 1409
Location: Inside the barrel of Wing Zero's left Buster Rifle.
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_________________ "Red particles are bad, they mutate you into... dead? But green/blue particles are good, apparently, for reasons and for purposes yet to be determined. Isn't science sometimes nicely color-coded?"
-AntaresGW: The Sword . Sera's Art . Gameplay . The Lost Citadel
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Wingnut
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:48 pm |
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| Hot-blooded Gattai |
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:44 pm
Posts: 7837
Location: Detroit, MI
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_________________ The Gundam wiki"Reality makes a crappy special effects crew." - Adam Savage
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Arbiter GUNDAM
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:10 pm |
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| Universe Destroying Robot |
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 pm
Posts: 2339
Location: Cruisin' the Universe w/Spaceman Spiff!!!
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Wingnut wrote: Well, I'll be damned... _________________ Thundermuffin wrote: AMURO: What? Don't be ridiculous- Tomino is just an abstract construct, he doesn't really exist.
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Zeonic Glory
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:59 pm |
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| OMG Doomsday Laser |
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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 1374
Location: Makkai, Gensokyo
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_________________
Warning: When using Minovsky Particles, please do not drive or operate heavy machinery. If you have a Newtype Flash lasting longer than 6 hours, please call 911 as this may be a sign of a serious and life threatening side-effect. Ask your doctor if taking Minovsky Particles are right for you.
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Arbiter GUNDAM
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:10 am |
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| Universe Destroying Robot |
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 pm
Posts: 2339
Location: Cruisin' the Universe w/Spaceman Spiff!!!
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Zeonic Glory wrote: I knew those mushrooms tasted funny... _________________ Thundermuffin wrote: AMURO: What? Don't be ridiculous- Tomino is just an abstract construct, he doesn't really exist.
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Vent Noir
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:56 pm |
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| HiMAT Spammer |
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:30 am
Posts: 959
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Vent Noir
@AJDynon on Twitter
April 7, 1979: The first episode of Mobile Suit Gundam premieres. Fanboys declare Gundam "Ruined FOREVER".
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Dave
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:54 am |
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| AEUG Slapping Boy |
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:46 pm
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there's cosplaying and then there is These guys!
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あなたの父親と母親elderberriesハムスターのにおいがした.
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Arbiter GUNDAM
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:41 am |
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| Universe Destroying Robot |
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 pm
Posts: 2339
Location: Cruisin' the Universe w/Spaceman Spiff!!!
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_________________ Thundermuffin wrote: AMURO: What? Don't be ridiculous- Tomino is just an abstract construct, he doesn't really exist.
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Vent Noir
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:55 am |
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| HiMAT Spammer |
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:30 am
Posts: 959
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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_________________
Vent Noir
@AJDynon on Twitter
April 7, 1979: The first episode of Mobile Suit Gundam premieres. Fanboys declare Gundam "Ruined FOREVER".
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pk-man
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:34 am |
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| Creepy Bishonen |
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:47 am
Posts: 159
Location: receiving faxes in the washroom, on Deck 9 aboard White Base
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Wingnut
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:57 pm |
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| Hot-blooded Gattai |
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:44 pm
Posts: 7837
Location: Detroit, MI
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This video is a bit of a treat for those Star Trek: TNG fans here. Especially if you're familiar with the 3rd season episode Yesterday's Enterprise. Wingnut's Internet Finds is proud to present a VideoSpaceFX production: The Battle of Narendra III. _________________ The Gundam wiki"Reality makes a crappy special effects crew." - Adam Savage
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ShadowCell
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:45 pm |
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| Traitor Villain |
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
Posts: 5762
Location: California
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